Writing and Recording Music for Commercials

[greenmeansjoe]

Hi y'all,

I'm talking to a studio owner about possibly composing some music for radio commercials and tv underscores.

The studio owner -- Bob Smith, Earworks Audio, Virginia Beach (anyone familiar with Earworks?) -- wants a demo from me, but I haven't ever written for commercials or whatever, so I offered to send him some of the stuff my band's done, just so he could get a feel for what I write. His reply was that he's not interested in pop music, but in stuff you might hear in a Nike commercial or some of the newer car commercials.

Ok, I'm thinking to myself, I can work with that ... but aren't most modern car commercials populated with bits and pieces of pop songs?

The reason I bring this up, though, is just to see if any of you folks have any experience with this kind of stuff. I look at this as an opportunity to make a few extra bucks, a few extra bucks I can eventually put towards making my own music.

Any tips here? What sort of demo do you think I should give the guy? Is there decent money in writing jingles? How would the publishing side of things work?

I'm really just looking for general info. Anything would be helpful.

Joe

[JASIII]

He's got me confused by "not wanting pop music" Like you said, what DO you hear in commercials? Maybe you could just send him a copy of "Do You Realize?" by the Flaming Lips, I hear that everytime I turn on the tv.

[YOUR KONG]

Maybe whip together some 30-second snippets of pop songs - "pop" meaning what the kids are listening to nowadays (those who would buy Nike sneakers), from Kylie Minogue to JT to Korn Bizkit (mmm!)

I don't have any experience in this field, but I hope to someday. From what I know, most ad agencies license their music from music libraries. I've never read anything about someone getting it directly from a studio owner, but maybe it happens.

[JGriffin]

Depending on whether the spot airs locally or nationally, there can be HUGE money in writing music for TV. For mid-level national clients (Not Nike or Budweiser, but something like JC Penney), agencies have been known to pay between $20,000 and $40,000 for a single piece of music, and that's before residuals. Radio is generally a bit less. Before you get dollar signs in your eyes, though, realize that as with anything else Your Mileage May Vary. He may not have that kind of clients, so he may offer less. As far as publishing, if it's a work made for hire, you may be asked to sign over your copyright and publishing to the client.

To hear what some chicago music houses are doing, check out the following:
http://www.deafdogmusic.com/
http://www.ascheandspencer.com
http://www.grooveaddicts.com/

[greenmeansjoe]

He may not have that kind of clients, so he may offer less. As far as publishing, if it's a work made for hire, you may be asked to sign over your copyright and publishing to the client.

As far as radio goes, he does mostly local stuff.

He also does underscoring for tv, though, and has provided music for The Discovery Channel and Travel Channel amongst others.

Joe

[JGriffin]

From what I know, most ad agencies license their music from music libraries. I've never read anything about someone getting it directly from a studio owner, but maybe it happens.

It's not that it's from a studio owner, it's a music house--a business that may or may not have its own full studio setup whose purpose is composing music for commercials. They are generally run by a composer and employ several staff composers and some engineers, unless they go into a commercial studio to do their finals. From what it looks like, Earworks Audio is a commercial studio that also employs some composers and writers and keeps a stable of actors on call, so they can also function as a boutique ad agency. They are probably a SAG/AFTRA signatory as well so they can hire union actors.

Sometimes agencies use libraries, but there is a general bias against library music--it's not considered to be of the same quality as music composed by a music house. Partly because the client can't get it changed--it the groove is great but there's a flute lick they hate, they can't remove it (and guys like me have to spend hours editing around it or EQing the stereo master to minimize it). But the bias is also based on the perception that music libraries are behind the curve of what's hip due to the time it takes to produce a CD and get it out, or that the composers themselves are less hip. This is less and less true, but the perception is hard to fight. I've had writers love a track right up until the second they find out it's stock, and then it becomes crap to them. If the budget allows, ad folk--in the bigger agencies--will always prefer to get a piece of music composed. For one-off sales and stuff, and lots of times for radio, this is less the case. We use a lot more "needle-drop" music for radio than for TV.

[junokane]

www.mcylinder.com

This guy, Pete Ducharme, is a former local Boston guy whose band, The Prime Numbers, was great, he's worked with Jack Drag among others, and he's a shit-hot producer.

Pete (aka Master Cylinder) had friends at Arnold Advertising, who did the big campaign for the VW new beetle and the Passat, etc. a few years back. Pete got his foot in the door to do music for the TV spots, and ended up doing the track that appears on the Passat or Jetta ad athat has the couple driving through the French Quarter in NO after a rain, where the music is on the cd player and everybody and everything is walking, moving, and keeping time with the song as they drive along, remember that one?

He lives in NYC now. The offers flooded in after that job. Pretty sweet.

[JGriffin]

www.mcylinder.com

This guy, Pete Ducharme, is a former local Boston guy whose band, The Prime Numbers, was great, he's worked with Jack Drag among others, and he's a shit-hot producer.

Pete (aka Master Cylinder) had friends at Arnold Advertising, who did the big campaign for the VW new beetle and the Passat, etc. a few years back. Pete got his foot in the door to do music for the TV spots, and ended up doing the track that appears on the Passat or Jetta ad athat has the couple driving through the French Quarter in NO after a rain, where the music is on the cd player and everybody and everything is walking, moving, and keeping time with the song as they drive along, remember that one?

He lives in NYC now. The offers flooded in after that job. Pretty sweet.

that was a great spot.

[YOUR KONG]

Thanks for the post about the music house, dwlb, that was pretty informative. I love learning about new ways people combine business & music.

[cyrusjulian]

www.mcylinder.com

This guy, Pete Ducharme, is a former local Boston guy whose band, The Prime Numbers, was great, he's worked with Jack Drag among others, and he's a shit-hot producer.

Pete (aka Master Cylinder) had friends at Arnold Advertising, who did the big campaign for the VW new beetle and the Passat, etc. a few years back. Pete got his foot in the door to do music for the TV spots, and ended up doing the track that appears on the Passat or Jetta ad athat has the couple driving through the French Quarter in NO after a rain, where the music is on the cd player and everybody and everything is walking, moving, and keeping time with the song as they drive along, remember that one?

He lives in NYC now. The offers flooded in after that job. Pretty sweet.

Really? I could've sworn I heard somewhere that Robin Guthrie from the Cocteau Twins did a lot of stuff for VW also. I remember they had a Lush song and a Stereolab song for a while.

[pk]

I work at a music house in NYC, as a producer and composer. Pretty much what 'dwlb' wrote is right on target. Music libraries (aka "stock music") is indeed quite cheezy and usually very 'midi' sounding, but it does the job for those smaller clients who don't have the blue-chip budgets for advertising. A 'general market' ad which runs nationwide (car ads, Kmart, etc.) does generate some ear-to-ear smile$ and more often than not, these are 'union jobs', which also generate residuals every few months, from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars in checks. Of course, this is after the upfront fee which can also be quite large.

However, the music house does take the lion's share of the fee, leaving the composer of the ad somewhere around 20-40% of the total fee. On big accounts, it still ends up being a nice chunk for 30 to 60 seconds of music, which usually needs to be delivered pretty quick. He was also correct in saying it's a 'work for hire', meaning no publishing fees to the composer. They usually license a track for a period of a year, after that, its' up for renewal if they want it.

Lots of competition, lots of politics and it certainly has it's downsides (that's another story entirely) but at the end of the day, it's a great way to make a living. What I would suggest to you is turn on the tele and do some research, take notes, look at what's being played and how it sounds. There's definitely a tide of electronic-based stuff being produced, but you can show some versatility between bleeps and drum n' bass loops to some more melodic guitar oriented stuff. Keep your demo short, perhaps 6 to 12 tracks of no more than a minute or two each. Having said that, if you feel you excel at one particular style of music, it may work to your advantage, as the average music house a few staff and freelance composers they work with, perhaps you can bring them a certain 'sound' that is missing, helping them expand their clientele and improve their reel. Something to think about...

Key things that will help:

- a good personality
- you're a versatile composer who can do many styles
- you can turn tracks around quickly and work well under pressure

Best of luck to you, let us know how it develops.

[joel hamilton]

I have scored a few ads.

I work with a guy from a place called "psyop" here in NYC.

I am doing a weird frank miller animated NASCAR ad tomorrow I guess. Writing and recording in ONE day.

These things are always way quick....

I have recorded stuff for movies as well, and I did a movie soundtrack with Marc Ribot, and mark anthony thompson. I never saw the movie, it was called urbania.

I think this sort of thing can be fun, and there is for sure money in it, but it can be kind of lame, and too quick, and stressful.

I like making records better, but I still take the fun ones....

[cornsound]

hmm velly interesting, I thought I was the only guy that worked in a music production house...

one thing I can add to the pile here is to make sure you know up front how the writer credit is split (or if it is split at all), percentages, residual amounts, etc... In the music house that I work for, the President/CEO usually gets ~50% writer credit/royalty/residual/etc. AUTOMATICALLY on EVERYTHING produced in house -- REGARDLESS if he was even involved in the production or creative process. or even getting the client. not one single composer we employ are staff - they are all independent contractors. the 1 guy who gets 90% of our composing gigs can't complain because he is always over-booked with our projects. I've seen a lot of talented composers quit because they get frustrated with doing all the work (producing, booking session players, getting our piano tuned(!!), sometimes even engineering the whole track), not too mention the extremely stressful warp 11 pace of things, and still only get a few hundred bucks up front and only half the writer credit due to the writer arrangement. yes, the President/CEO is a multi-millionaire.

VERY IMPORTANT - is someone in the company registering the copyrights with ASCAP/BMI/SESAC etc. and following up on it? or are you on your own? no registration, no residual....not to mention that the P.R.O.'s are notoriously bad about granting pay-outs for music broadcast on TV/radio (especially ASCAP).

but back to the writer split issue, I'm not saying that all music houses do this, but some do. if you're ok with someone sharing writing credit with you where, perhaps, they didn't write or contribute 1 single note other than the fact that they have the pimp skills to whore your music out to the clients....then by all means go for it.

in all actuality, it can be pretty good money when you get the bigger accounts/clients. but the whole mindset is something I don't think I'll ever like. it's bad enough I have to listen and engineer the sort of crap they call 'commercial music/jingles/bed music' -- I couldn't even imagine writing that shit for a living.

but hey, it beats flipping burgers at Wendy's.

[greenmeansjoe]

The main reason I'm interested in this is, of course, the cash. Some spare change would be nice.

Maybe I'm delusional here, but I think it'll be fairly easy for me too. So many of my songs start as fragments. Many have never gotten beyond that point. So I've got a nice backlog of fragments to use for the demo, which is cool.

Thanks for all the info, everyone. This is very helpful. Keep it comin'.

Joe

[greenmeansjoe]

One more thing:

Assuming my little experiment with Earworks goes well, do other music publishing house-type places accept unsolicited demos? How hard is it to make a full-time job out of this?

Joe