Crappy kick sounds

[black mariah]

Yeah, actually I did. I've recorded these same drums in this same room three times now and we've tried a bunch of mic placements. Right now the mic is about tom high, maybe three feet from the kit, pointed at the kick drum. It was farther back and higher earlier, but the toms weren't sounding strong enough so I moved it to where it is now and it sounds fine... except the kick. *CRINGE AGAIN*

If you want to hop a plane to Fort Worth, Texas and lend me a mic or two, feel free.

[cgarges]

What does the drummer think of all this? Does he agree or just love his suck-ass kick drum sound to death?

[dwelle]

don't be afriad to take the resonant head off the kick. i used to kinda be. the last drummer i recorded is very good and plays with NO resonant heads on anything but the snare. i was very skeptical. change some heads, he tunes for like 30 minutes, and bam. one of the easiest times i've had getting a good kick sound, but again, this guys solid.

a 24" kick, open with a blanket to slightly muffle the beater head. ended up using a 4033 of all things a foot and a half out, turned slighly off center. with that kick sound, i'll bet that one mic out 2 more feet and up chest high could've gotten a good drum sound, and i'm sure kick would've been there in spades...

[Professor]

I'm a bit concerned with the sounds that you are describing and some of the tuning remedies. I've never played with aquarian heads, but they always seemed a little too thick to me. If you are getting a thud like whacking a piece of cardboard, then you need the drum a bit tighter. The dull thud is what you get when you grab a loose drum head and hit it, the resonant ring is what you get when you tune a drum. It is possible that the guy's drum needs a new head if no amount of tuning will help. If he has been playing on the thing for a bunch of years then it might be time, and try to aim him towards something lighter, like a Remo Renaissance or Fiber-Skin (which are dark by Remo standards, but probably light by Aquarian standards). Also you definitely don't want the front head overly loose because then it acts more like a parachute to catch the sound than a resonant chamber. Try to tune the heads to the same pitch. Taking the front head off will only help if the batter head is in good shape and well tuned. You should also play with dampening - if you want more sustain on the hit, use less dampening.
I probably don't have to say that one mic is less than ideal, but it's more for the visitors than for the troubled engineer. Try moving the drums into the corner of the room to help increase the bass. Maybe try the single mic at floor level rather than higher up - you might lose some cymbals, but gaining a kick might be worth it. Mic placement is tough without one more channel to catch the kick, so I won't bother making suggestions on kick mic positions.
I definitely think it is important to find out what the drummer and the rest of the band think of the kick sound also. If they all just love it, then do the gig, and try to ignore it.
Good luck.

-Jeremy

[black mariah]

Worse than having them harp on the way the kick sounds, they really don't seem to care. But if people are going to be hearing this and knowing I did it, I'd like them to hear something GOOD. I managed to get the thing tuned to where it's not as asslike as it was to start. Anyway, thanks again for all the badass suggestions. Someone needs to compile all of these together. Call it "Ways to Un-Ass a Kick Drum"

[buzzaudioguy]

I don't usually have alot of problems with kick drums, but I've had ALOT more problems from their owners! Once I had this guy bring in a horrible sounding student grade kit with the original beat to death heads on it. I just laughed at first and said "ok, so you wanna play my house kit!" After that went over like a fart in church I went after his kit with my trusty drum key, doing all I could to make it sound... well, like a drum kit! After a while, it actually started to sound better. The kick was WAY too tight and sounded more like a 12" tom, but I finally got it sounding like a kick drum. Also his pedal(again, the original toy kick pedal!) was way too squeeky, so I offered him my Tama Ironcobra pedal. Boy! That really made a difference! So I finished up and felt kinda proud I managed to make this kit sound as right as possible. Mic'd up it still wasn't the best sounding kit, but it was the best it could be. That's when it ALL went down hill! The drummer, who wasn't all that great mind you, starts saying "I can't get my double kicks on this pedal!" The tama pedal was WAY smoother than his pos pedal, but I of course wanted him to be comfortable so we switched it. Listening to the track, it definately sounded different, and I think I would've been ok with it... BUT, after tracking half the song he stops and says he's still having problems. So guess what! He starts turning the lugs on that sucker! Next thing I know, it's BACK to sounding like a tom. Maybe just a 14" tom, but still not like a kick drum. I pretty much gave up at that point. He couldn't even tell the difference on playback. I'm like "you hear that tom! that's your kick drum." He thought it rocked. I thought he was brain dead. I think his band mates later killed him and buried his body in the woods somewhere. Or maybe I just dreamed that part.

OH!!! and don't get me started on the snare drum!!

[Mason]

If this is anything but jazz, where a resonant bass drum is more important, it's probably best to whip off the front head and stuff a pillow or blanket in the kick drum. It'll simplify the sound and won't be too much of a shock to the drummer.

Does the front head have a hole cut? You wouldn't even need to remove the head. Just feed a blanket in there and find a position for it that sounds good.

[mikebuzz]

I was testing some new mics with the bass drum the other day
1. try'd a C414 4" from beater no lo cut -20db pad SOunded ???? , changed mic placement No help , removed the front head -better
2. used SEnn. 421 4" from head , better sound fuller but to boomy , moved the mic back to about 12-14" from beater WAY better sound ?????? tight punchy good beater pickup defined sound ???

GO figure

Later
Buzz

[djslayerissick]

i said it once and i'll say it again:

use a PA subwoofer speak as a mic! hook that sucker up! best kick drum mic you'll ever find. pure low end with NO bleed. and then use a decent dynamic mic on the beater side of head for the high end pop. works like a charm.

i heard the idea straight from this forum and have used it every since.

[cgarges]

I know I'll probably catch some flack for this, but quite obviously this is his kick drum sound and it's what makes him comfortable. Both playing-wise and tone-wise. I understand your drive for wanting it to sound good if it represents your work, but to me, what better represents an engineer's work is a happy band that comes back to him to do their next project. Your name will be in small print on the inside cover (if you're lucky) and the name of his representative organisation will be in presumably larger letters on the cover. If the band has personally entrusted you with making their record more commercially viable, then it's their responsiblilty to take your suggestions, but at the same time it's likely that they are paying you for a service, and as such they are currently your employer. It's good that you have pointed out the situation to him, now the ball is in his court. You can't win 'em all, but if they're happy with it, they'll tell their next group of friends who are looking to do a project. I wish all the bands I recorded had great sounding gear AND were easy to deal with.

[Al]

"I wish all the bands i recorded had great gear AND were easy to deal with"

I certainly wished that too mate, but that's life isn't it! .
A straight to the point post cgarges! good call!!!