Going Pro

[Cellotron]

I read this quickly as "500 feet of Mogami phone line" and nearly choked on my juice...

LOL.
with some people ya never know - there's all those audiophiles buying everything from little posts to keep their cables from never reaching the ground to ultra expensive power distributors. Maybe true hi-fi phone lines (so you can track vox even when they have to call it in from prison!) are the next step. The only problem is we'd have to deal with posts from guys who think Kimber is the only superior solution to use for phone line- or from those wanting to know if that latest discount phone line from Behringer is really better than the Radio Shack stuff.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[kayagum]

Having started a small business with very little capital - let me warn you that the idea that you have 20k saved that you can just use it for gear and you should just make a cool wish list and blow it at once is pretty darn foolish.

When first starting a business - especially one where you need to create things in a physical facility - there are endless little things that cost that will very quickly add up. Business name registration fees with the county, meetings with accountants, the credit card swiper and set up fee for accepting cc's, a printer for the invoices, 500 feet of Mogami, phone line, dsl, dry wall, 2x4's, advertising, studio furniture, money to live on while you're building the facility or things are slow etc. etc. can quickly shoot into the thousands.

So my advice is: keep the 20g's in the bank - create your studio with the equipment that you already have - and when you need something it will be incredibly clear as to what that thing will be. Get questions answered by actually working in the studio - like how much business your getting initially (which will determine whether you need a big advertising budget or not), who is the clientele (i.e. what equipment you'll want to focus on getting changes a bit if the hip-hoppers, corporate voice overs, or rockers, etc end up being the ones actually paying your rent, what the missing holes in your rack is, how much cash you really have to play with after buying all the little things that you'll need to actually open your doors. After a while it will be clear whether a high end comp or pre, or a faster computer, or a 1/2" mixdown deck, etc. etc. is more of a priority. But for now - keep your money until your farther down the road and can clearly evaluate what you really need.

Good luck!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Speaking as someone who works at a bank for a day job, this is some of the very best business advice I've seen on this board. Cash is king, cash flow is everything.

Believe it or not, most business die from expanding too rapidly (getting a second location, buying too much equipment or inventory) than for a lack of customers.

[A.David.MacKinnon]

At one point in my life I was mulling over the same decision. You have to decide if you want to build a space for other engineers or if you want to build a space for yourself. The core of the decision is do you want to be a studio owner or an engineer? If you're a studio owner you're selling the space and equipment. Buy good gear, make sure it all works and make sure it's well set up. If your an engineer than the gear is less important. You're selling you skills.
I decided that making records was more important to me than owning a studio.
I built a smallish room for myself. It's big enough to track bands but small/cheap enough that I can afford to have it sit empty if there's no business or if I'm tour. I also built up a modest but good collection of gear.
I've tried to make the core of the studio portable so that I can focus on location recording (houses, clubs, halls, practice spaces etc).
My typical record would be tracked on location (or in my space) and mixed at a "real" studio. It works well. I can make records that I'm proud off and not have to sweat about having the studio booked 5 days of the week.

[scott anthony]

At one point in my life I was mulling over the same decision. You have to decide if you want to build a space for other engineers or if you want to build a space for yourself. The core of the decision is do you want to be a studio owner or an engineer? If you're a studio owner you're selling the space and equipment. Buy good gear, make sure it all works and make sure it's well set up.

When I was freelancing a lot, I used to get asked if I wanted my own studio. I used to answer, "If I wanted to be a pilot, would it be best to buy an airline?"

Of course, this was over ten years ago and the cost of owning a professional NYC studio seemed absurd. Today, with affordable gear, it's a little different...

[NewAndImprov]

I read this quickly as "500 feet of Mogami phone line" and nearly choked on my juice...

Man, the internet sounds so much better over Mogami phone/dsl. Once you hear the clarity and imaging of the TapeOp messageboard, you'll never go back...

[scott anthony]

I read this quickly as "500 feet of Mogami phone line" and nearly choked on my juice...

Man, the internet sounds so much better over Mogami phone/dsl. Once you hear the clarity and imaging of the TapeOp messageboard, you'll never go back...

Shit, and I always blamed bad sound on the MP3 encoding...

[Rigsby]

Having started a small business with very little capital - let me warn you that the idea that you have 20k saved that you can just use it for gear and you should just make a cool wish list and blow it at once is pretty darn foolish.

When first starting a business - especially one where you need to create things in a physical facility - there are endless little things that cost that will very quickly add up. Business name registration fees with the county, meetings with accountants, the credit card swiper and set up fee for accepting cc's, a printer for the invoices, 500 feet of Mogami, phone line, dsl, dry wall, 2x4's, advertising, studio furniture, money to live on while you're building the facility or things are slow etc. etc. can quickly shoot into the thousands.

So my advice is: keep the 20g's in the bank - create your studio with the equipment that you already have - and when you need something it will be incredibly clear as to what that thing will be. Get questions answered by actually working in the studio - like how much business your getting initially (which will determine whether you need a big advertising budget or not), who is the clientele (i.e. what equipment you'll want to focus on getting changes a bit if the hip-hoppers, corporate voice overs, or rockers, etc end up being the ones actually paying your rent, what the missing holes in your rack is, how much cash you really have to play with after buying all the little things that you'll need to actually open your doors. After a while it will be clear whether a high end comp or pre, or a faster computer, or a 1/2" mixdown deck, etc. etc. is more of a priority. But for now - keep your money until your farther down the road and can clearly evaluate what you really need.

Good luck!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Speaking as someone who works at a bank for a day job, this is some of the very best business advice I've seen on this board. Cash is king, cash flow is everything.

Believe it or not, most business die from expanding too rapidly (getting a second location, buying too much equipment or inventory) than for a lack of customers.

Yeah, actually i'd second all of this. Seems like incredibly good business sense to me.

[Rip Tailor]

Hey Everyone thanks for the amazing amount of feedback!! YOU ALL KICK ASS!!! All of your replies were extremely helpful!! My intention is definately to begin recording some people I already have lined up with my pre existing studio gear. I assure you all that I won't be dropping 20 Gs any time soon, being that I am pretty happy with how my recordings are sounding so far.

My main question though was if you have that chunk regardless of cabeling, Patch bays (I've got 5), building materials, ect what GEAR you would want. And I guess I should clatify that I am more interested in the CORE- Board and DAW. By the way there are no plans of quitting my day job untill the skills pay the bills (even at this point it could be a long time).
I think though that what I initially intended the studio to be where I could record my own projects at a professional quality, and I would love to be able to quit serving tables by recording music for others (watching people eat isn't my ONLY obsessive passion!! ie. sarcasm)

Oh and another clarification; the space is for my personal engineering use, although I would absolutely rent it out to engineer friends I know are compitent- it would be nice to have A DAY OFF!!!
THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE!!!!!!
Rip

[I'm Painting Again]

maybe an iz radar system and a board, TAC, neotek, oram, trident or something..

[Cellotron]

I am biased here, as I am a reseller (besides an avid user) for this - but for DAW I'll suggest an obscure app that I am totally in love with - SAWStudio.
http://www.sawstudio.com

2g's gets you a complete virtual emulation of a 72 channel 48i/o large format console with very musical sounding eq's and comps on each channel. Nice thing is that it is written in assembly language so you can actually load it up with native comps & eq's going on every single of those 72 tracks on a reasonably up to date PC and it will still be rock solid and lightning fast in its performance. It gives you the closest thing to an actual hardware feel I've found in a native app. Couple this with either RME Hammerfall, Soundscape Mixtreme 192 and the ad/da of your choice - or Lynx 2 or Layla 24 for an all in one solution, along with a Mackie Control or CM Motor Mix for a fully integrated control surface and you're pretty much set as far as the digital realm goes.

As far as an analog board goes - seems like a Ghost should do you pretty well - but there's lots of cool choices out there now if you have the cash to spend.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[A.David.MacKinnon]

Holy Crap! I use SAW too! I've got an older version called SAWpro.
It's quite good. I don't think it's the most user friendly DAW out there but I like it better than Pro-tools.

[Family Hoof]

cellotron,
You must be a good reseller cause that little paragraph there made me want to buy it. I think about switching DAWS (currently on TDM) from time to time and when I discovered SAW, I really thought about it. I come to the same conclusions everytime, which are 1) the learning curve would not only be a bitch but hurt me business wise (learning on clients' time ain't cool and they're already used to my lightning speed on the Digidesign rig), and 2) The compatibility would be an issue. The majority use Pro Tools (for better or worse) and you can't have every project start and end at your own place. This is intended as something for our original poster think about, not just a rant.

Rip,
Get the console (or console-less) and recording platform that works best for your workflow and your client base. Only you know for sure what this is. For example, I've been learning the hard way that analog tape is a horrible investment financially, and whereas it will attract the few savvy/purist type of cutomer, it's not likely that you'll make any more cash from it (probably loose $). Then again, if you've gotta have that sound then there's no other way (and I didn't get an R2R machine to attract business). If you've already become acustomed to one particular DAW, changing now may not be wise. See what your clients or potential clients prefer/need.

[Mr. Dipity]

2) The compatibility would be an issue. The majority use Pro Tools (for better or worse) and you can't have every project start and end at your own place. This is intended as something for our original poster think about, not just a rant.

This really depends - it was a no brainer as little as 18 months ago, but I at this point, you need to ask yourself:. are you trying to be compatible with your clients home set ups, or other studios? This depends on your clients.

If your clients are bringing in things the did at home, or expect to take files recorded at your place home to edit, I would argue that you are going to have as much incompatibility issues with Protools as with anything else, at this point.

[Rip Tailor]

Wow SAW sounds interesting. I think now I'm probably leaning towards going with an analog console at this point for the inputs/submixes/sends/ect. I have been in ProTools/cubase mix land for a while now and I really miss the the world of touch. Doing some digging on some of the current state of the current digital mixers makes me really want to just hold out another couple years (project snapshots/DaW control/flying faders=nice -- Latency/resolution=bad). I think a trident with mackie control would be a good way to go, I'm sure a nice analog desk would be a much better investment for resale later (at least better than a digital-soon-to-be-obsolete-console). So has any one compared ProTools HD to a Digi002 at 24/96?

[Cellotron]

cellotron,
You must be a good reseller cause that little paragraph there made me want to buy it.

Thanks! - I'm trying. Right now it works out to be occasional lunch money but interest in SAW is definitely growing. I really think people are looking for another viable alternative that actually does what it's supposed to do - and SAWStudio definitely fits that description.

I think about switching DAWS (currently on TDM) from time to time and when I discovered SAW, I really thought about it. I come to the same conclusions everytime, which are 1) the learning curve would not only be a bitch but hurt me business wise (learning on clients' time ain't cool and they're already used to my lightning speed on the Digidesign rig),

No doubt about it that TDM is a great system and if you're comfortable with it there's no real reason to change. To me for someone looking to get a new system SAW just is a ton more bang for buck - you'll end spending about 50% of the amount you would need to get equivalent power from what you get with your HD setup. With SAW you're not locked into proprietary sound cards or converter boxes - you can pick and choose what works best for you. Right now I recommend RME Hammerfall or Sydec Mixtreme 192 - both these give ultra low latency and let you use premium ad/da if you want it. Cool thing with SAW is that you can link multiple computers together through a simple TCP/IP connection (without having to purchase additional licenses) and have them run gigantic Phil Spector productions if that's your thing. i.e. link 2 computers together and you can have 144 stereo tracks going with rock solid performance. It also works great with UAD-1 so if you're in love with the ability of PT to use DSP powered plugins you still can do that with SAW.

As far as learning curve - I always offer 2 months of free email support with purchases but I've found that I almost never have to deal with questions from clients because they so quickly figure it out for themselves - and I've sold it to people who were using Samplitude, Nuendo, Sonar, and who even had never touched a DAW before. If you understand signal flow of a console - you'll understand the layout of SAW.

and 2) The compatibility would be an issue. The majority use Pro Tools (for better or worse) and you can't have every project start and end at your own place. This is intended as something for our original poster think about, not just a rant.

Actually if you have to deal with session files coming from a lot of different sudios with different DAW platforms there's a really cool tool from Cuibono Soft called EDL Convert Pro4. It allows you to translate SAW session files to PT5 session files and visa versa - and is also compatible with Samplitude, OMFI, Wavelab, Sonic, Vegas, Audition, AES31, OpenTL, TascamBU, etc.. At $250 it's still way cheaper than Digi's Digitranslator. http://www.cuibono-soft.com/

Best regards,
Steve Berson