Guitars: New, used, or vintage

[soundguy]

new vs. old les paul:

we all know old les pauls mostly sound good. You can also pay $40K (literally) for one, so that should be no suprise. New les pauls are expensive, the heritage series are more expensive but they arent terrible and in some cases are worth the money. When gibson started the heritage series one of my best friends bought one. It has the coolest finish I have ever seen on a guitar and the electronics in the thing are pretty unique, the heritage pickups are fucking wierd. I hated having to record that guitar when he first got it, I totally didnt get it. Over the years doing several records with that guitar, it really has become a secret weapon of sorts, it has as much character as a real '57 les paul, its totally new sounding but its totally unique sounding and it sounds like quality. When that guitar gets old it could very well be what those old guitars are today. Id say for the money he paid, he got his money worth. Last year I went into a music store and accidentally picked up a heritage LP jr and instantly needed to have it, it sounds insane but more importantly had that thing which wouldnt let me put it down. I migth have been able to get a real old Jr for a little more, but I wanted that guitar , the neck just felt right, and since buying it has been the total ace in the sleeve on a few records. If you are investing in a new guitar, ANY guitar, the heritage LP's are a decent enough investment and they are still affordable (compared to a real old one) and all the heritage gibsons Ive recorded (small handful, not tons) have all had a little "something" which made them stand out. Those cheap faded finish guitars are a ludicrous bargain, I tried one out when I was looking for a SG and for the $600 or so its pretty much impossible to say a bad thing about them and I thnk they might even be made in the USA.

Ive owned lotsa guitars, I think the most important thing is to really forget all this shit and just buy a guitar that really makes you want to play, even if it isnt the best sounding guitar out there, so long as it gets some kind of emotional response out of you when you play it you'll be able to do great things if you are a player. I have this shitty japanese jazzmaster that is fully shitty and horrid sounding and I love that guitar to death, just works for me. Find a guitar like that and it wont matter what it is.

dave

[chetatkinsdiet]

As I sit here in my room full of Les Pauls...and other assorted Gibbys and others from Fender, Rick, Martin, etc....I'm wondering how to answer your question.
New Gibson's are fairly expensive, right? Not really. They're totally in line with the ones they sold in the 50s. Find any conversion chart that maps out cost of goods in the past and compares them to modern day prices with inflation and stuff and you'll see that they're about the same difference as a loaf of bread or anything else that you might be comparing to the prices that they cost in the 50s.
One other thing. List price back then was basically what an item sold for. There were no online or mega stores that sold at 30-40% of list price. Why would they? You want a Gibson, well heck, they were the only shop in Chicago or wherever that sold that brand. So, list price is really meaningless nowadays. Street price, which is set by Sam Ash or Guitar Center is what you compare to. OK, enough with the history/economics.....

Old vs. new. Look, I'd never buy store bought new stuff. It's stupid. Sort of like a brand new car that's been driven off the lot, you can save a ton of money looking for a slightly used model. Heck, my 2004 LP Std with the 60s neck....AA top btw....was found in a pawn shop early last year. It was $999. Not a scratch on it. Or, maybe my 57 RI Custom Shop Goldtop that I got in a Guitar Center. Some guy had bought it and traded it in. I got it for $1400. Both are amazing. Deals like this are to be found all over the place. Used ones can be had for $1000-1500 all the time on ebay and in music stores. Heck, go to a guitar show and I"m sure you can find one. A refin top or other nick, like a headstock repair. If it's good, who cares....it just means you get a nice guitar for cheap.
Now, if you really want the best deal in used LP's currently, look for a 95 LP Special. They made many different ones....regular single cut Jr models...double cut Jr models, etc. They are the ones that have the neck binding and the real "gibson" inlay on the headstock. I've got 3 and they're all keepers. I've hooked a couple of friends up on these and they're all happy as well. They've got the P90s in them and are tone monsters. Love them. You can usually find them for well under a grand.
Anyway, there's tons of deals out there if you just look.
later,
m

[nipsy]

Buy a Les Paul studio from the 80s - they lack binding and other fancy stuff but are often a good deal.....

same inerts as the custom.....

i found mine at daddys manch(vegas)ster nh, w/ a $400 price tag (used) played one chord, its been mine ever since (a good 15 years).....

[gandhabba]

I'll second the used Hamer USA recommendation. I think for the money, you can get a lot more guitar that way. I'd also suggest checking out used Guilds (Bluesbird, s-100, etc) for the same reason, in addition to the other suggestions above. I've also heard the Elite Epiphones are a good guitar for the money - Gibson parts assembled in Japan.

I do love Gibsons, but somehow, paying $10K for a pair of vintage PAFs seems a little deranged to me.

Just another $0.02 worth...

[Cappy*tan]

I have a Heritage Les Paul.

I'd played an Epiphone and a Gibson and absolutely hated both. Just did not "feel" right.

Played the Heritage for about two minutes...the neck just fit perfectly in my hand...I was sold.

I'd been a Fender type guy for almost ten years previously.

Never looked back. Don't doubt the Heritage. Give them a chance. Same goes for Guild, actually.....now that I think about it.

[lonesome_tone]

the faded series are most definitely made in the usa - even that little $300 melody maker with one p90. that's on my impulse buy short list if i can't find another sg like i had in high school...

[Bear's Gone Fission]

A word on the "lawsuit" LP copies: very many of them don't have a solid maple cap on the body but have an arched laminate, a bit like how a 335 is formed, with a dead space between it and the body. I've seen one ebay listing put this down as a "chambered body". Uh uh, it isn't the same thing. Often quite heavy mahogony backs, so the things still way a ton. So caution is suggested - best on these guys to try them in the flesh.

Interestingly, the lawsuit strats routinely seem very, very good. There was this one Fernandes I still kick myself for not getting - nice maple v-neck, cheap price. I think they liked knocking off LP's more because they sold for more and that was the hot guitar of the era, wheras it's a bit hard to cut corners in a strat without it being obvious.

Bear

[Ian]

Look for a early 70's Les Paul Deluxe, they can usually be scored for less than a grand. Make sure you can actually check out the guitar before you buy, some are magic and others are....well less than that. Never let cosmetics become important as it really has nothing to do with how the guitar plays or sounds. Lots of folks bash early 70's LP's but compared to newer guitars I've played it is not deserved.

[Bear's Gone Fission]

Oh, on LP's, I have a strong prejudice against maple necks. Had an LP studio that was otherwise nice, but it never really sounded like an LP. What a shame.

Bear

[Ivon]

B.C. Rich Warlocks are truly the only way 2 fly.

[gandhabba]

the faded series are most definitely made in the usa - even that little $300 melody maker with one p90. that's on my impulse buy short list if i can't find another sg like i had in high school...

Well I have heard that those MM's <i>sound</i> good, but have you seen them up close ? The "finish" made me really sad. I think the neck is made from "spanish cedar" and the body is some sort of veneer/laminate... I don't know.

I mean, I'm down with making the most out of whatever instrument you have, but I think there is something to be said for buying the best quality instrument you can afford - those MMs just look and feel cheap to me.

I've got a '62 MM which I paid like $425 for, and though it was Gibson's student model guitar of that time, it's solid mahogany and has lasted 43 years. I'd hate to see what those new MMs would look like in 43 years...

I guess my rant is heading way off topic, so I'll shut up. Oops.

[KennyLusk]

Not meaning to plug any one maufacturer but rather to comment on a spanish cedar neck... my Martin OM-16 has a spanish cedar neck and it's been fantastic. I'd say it's a good sustain-wood.

[Snarky]

Cheap dude, Used and Cheap. It's not the guitar. It's you. I recommend early 80's squires, ibanez rock n rolls, anything with a straight neck and good frets. You can always yank the electronics out and redo everything. Trust me, I've spent way too much on guitars before. Cheap, used and cheap. Spend the money on the amp. Or on your girlfriend.

Oh and I definatley second any BC rich product. Those things were so $$$ and hot back in the late 80's. Now you can buy a sweet Ironbird for $100. Neon Green Bitch! Neon Green!! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[kayagum]

Word on the Juniors. Something about the simplicity of a single P90 pickup and a stop tailpiece bridge that translates into a monster. The ultimate rock/punk rock machine.

[Catoogie]

You said it. I got a new '54 reissue last year for $2K; it's awesome. I think you can swing a used '57 RI for around 1600. I'd definitely go that route over a new Standard.

WOW! Really? In my opinion that is WAAAAAY to much to pay for a reissue. $2,000.00? $1,600.00? Ridiculous. I know I'm getting old and I'm not gonna find a Les Paul Standard for $500.00 anymore but c'mon. Anybody checked out the Jimmie Vaughan Tex Mex Strats? You'd have a whole lot of cash left over for some drinks.