in acoustical hell

[andrewstadium]

Hi.
First off, I attended the Studio Construction on a Budget panel at Tape Op Con and had my world turned upside down.
Cheers to the panelists!
I guess a certain burden comes with the aquiring of knowledge.
Which is why I am so bummed out right now.

My problem:
Just moved into a room with a crappy non-insulated wooden floor.
Hooked up my monitors and I could hear and feel the room resonate
with the bass frequencies. Running a 120Hz tone actually made it sound like there were bass notes coming from various points in the room. As if there was another speaker there...pretty awful.

My gut instinct is to just tear the floor out which I am allowed to do.
Or I could fill it with sand which seems like a solution but is lots of work for a stucture that is flawed from the get go.

What should I do? Any suggestions? Thanks!

[jzahos]

I'm definitely not an expert on this, nor do I have much experience in acoustic treatment - others will be able to help more. BUT, from what I've been told, bass traps in the hot spots may help. Maybe a couch, or a recliner - things that are big and heavy enough to absorb the low freq. energy.

JZ

[jajjguy]

what you're describing could simply be really bad modal problems, which would be helped somewhat by low frequency absorption. unless you're sure the floorboards are radiating sound, and that that's the main problem, i'd leave the floor alone, at least to start with.

[distorTED]

i agree with jajjguy.

go to http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php

there's more than enough help over there.

[brokenchairs]

try putting heavy stuff (poofy chairs, futon, a rolled up carpet) in the places where you hear the sounds coming from. Move stuff around and try a few things out before you rip the floor out.

[Ethan Winer]

Andrew,

> My gut instinct is to just tear the floor out <

I agree with the others that what you need most is bass trapping. Have a look at the Acoustics FAQ, second in the list on my Articles page:

www.ethanwiner.com/articles.html

--Ethan

[outreachrecords]

ethan come to the rescue!!!

[andrewstadium]

Wow. Ethan Winer answering my post. An honor.
Anyway, I am in the process of building bass traps right now.
Auralex on 1/4" wood framed with 2x3 with pink panther insulation on the back side. Hope this works. From what I am hearing from ya'll, it seems like I need more than just a pair of bass traps for the room.
I will get back to you with an update. Thanks.

Andrew,

> My gut instinct is to just tear the floor out <

I agree with the others that what you need most is bass trapping. Have a look at the Acoustics FAQ, second in the list on my Articles page:

www.ethanwiner.com/articles.html

--Ethan

[Family Hoof]

Shouldn't these traps be tuned to the culprit frequencies? Not that I'd know but just curious. When a friends studio had corner traps built, they were cut to certain dimensions and with a certain width for the opening based a single frequency which they were supposed to absord. Room measurements had been taken to determine which one and then some formulas tell you what to build. Was done by Fran Manzella.

[Ethan Winer]

Andrew,

> it seems like I need more than just a pair of bass traps for the room. <

Yes, you need more than one or two bass traps to get good results.

--Ethan

[Ethan Winer]

Hoof,

> Shouldn't these traps be tuned to the culprit frequencies? <

Probably not. Maybe for a large room, like a big-time studio's control room. But for most small rooms this is not a good approach. My recent article in the February, 2004 issue of Electronic Musician magazine explains this in detail. If you don't get EM, that article is now listed on my company's site. Click the link under my name below and look on the Articles page.

--Ethan

[andrewstadium]

I have consulted a few people I trust and here is my update.

I considered this room to have a single problem but now it has forked of into two (in my opinion).
1 ) floor vibrations
- I neglected to mentioned that the floor was not constructed with sound in mind and therefore it more or less "rattles" and vibrates beneth me. This drives me bonkers when I am seated in the mix position.
2) resonance of bass frequencies - which is separate from the floor,
though the floor contributes to this. Right?
-I think that this is due to the size of the room 12x14 and the current lack of absorptive materials. That seems to be a parameter I can work within. Whereas the crappy floor seems hopeless...

I think that the first problem can be addressed by taking out the floor which sits on cement. Though it sounds like a huge undertaking it is not due to the prefab nature of this rickety monster.

Any comments? This is making me miserable!

[Ethan Winer]

Andrew,

> 1 ) floor vibrations <

I have to admit I'm not much of a construction guy. If the floor is simply too flimsy and rattles around, maybe you can add either a very heavy carpet, or a layer or two of plywood on top to stiffen it up.

> resonance of bass frequencies - which is separate from the floor, though the floor contributes to this. Right? <

Yes, the poor bass frequency response in the room due to reflections is different from the floor resonating. But these two things can combine to make each problem worse.

--Ethan