How do I get a more fuller/punchy sound when tracking drums?

[swedishstudios]

Does anyone have any ideas, tricks, or suggestions on how to get a more fuller sound while recording drums. My set-up is a Digi 001 with Pro Tools 5.3.1, a Mackie 1402 vlz board, RNC compressor, Audio Technica AT4033, sm57, AKG D112, and MD421 microphones. I hung blankets up around my walls and put a big sheet of plywood under the drumkit (I heard that helps). This set-up sounds 'alright', but I really want to get a more fuller sound to my drum tracks; they sound somewhat 'dead'.

thanks,

Swedish

[cgarges]

Make sure the drums sound good in the room and be CERTAIN that the phase relationships between mics are correct. When I mix stuff that someone else has tracked, nine times out of ten the drums aren't in phase and when I reverse the polarity of certain mics, the drums just come to life. I am constantly amazed at the number of people who completely ignore this step in the tracking process.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[Reuben]

Hey Chris, I'm just curious: do the out of phase channels tend to be the same in these projects you describe? Like, I'm guessing it's tom mics and overheads conflicting. Am I right? Or do people not even know when their overheads are out?

[JonJ1176]

Sometimes it starts with the basics. Tuning is key. If its a good drummer, on a good (tuned) set, in a good room, its usually a good recording.

I always give my mics a bit of space for air. This tends to help during mix downs. By doing this your drums have a sence of depth.

Roll off any drum peice that doesn't belong under 160hz for kick clarity.

Squash your overheads if it calls for it.

Set up a room mike, and squash it for character.

Hope these help.

[joelpatterson]

It's great when a kit sounds good from the git-go, just pushing up the faders-- but when it doesn't, there's a world of wonder to be had with selectively dipping frequencies in the mix stage. Like if you had a 32-band parametric EQ. Come on--however agonizing this kind of microscopic detailing is, if it doesn't kill you it will surely make you stronger.

[cgarges]

Hey Chris, I'm just curious: do the out of phase channels tend to be the same in these projects you describe? Like, I'm guessing it's tom mics and overheads conflicting. Am I right? Or do people not even know when their overheads are out?

Nine times out of ten, I reverse the kick and all is cool. Sometimes certain toms need a little futzing (usually the floor tom first), but the kick is almost always where it starts. I know lots of people throw the overheads and/or toms out of phase, but that seems silly to me. If the kit is out of phase, why not alter the least amount of stuff possible and just reverse the kick and/or snare, as opposed to your overheads and all the tom mics. That seems backwards to me. In any case, it only takes a couple of seconds to reverse the stuff and see if it sounds better. I don't understand why so many people are afraid to do this.

The trouble getting things to sound good really arises when a signal has been EQed to death before being phase-corrected. That can make things a real phase nightmare and I see that a lot, too. That's usually people who think "Oh, I'll fix it later," especially with the advent of digital technology. Why fix that later, but start reaching for the EQ knob now? That's just asking for problems.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[andyg666]

good advice so far. phase is SO important for drum recordings. it can suck the bottom out of your sound if you don't check all mics against each other for phasey-ness. and there is simply no subsitute for a good-sounding kit and a good drummer...

do you use the RNC when tracking? using it on the kick can help you to get a more aggressive sound if that's what you're after. ever tried the D112 close to the beater and the 4033 about 6" or 1' in front of the kick? an LDC on the kick can give you some really nice BOOM. i am also a big fan of using stereo or mono room mics and slamming the hell out of them in a compressor.

[jca83]

...buy a tape machine.

[swingdoc]

You say your tracks sound dead, yet you have blankets on the wall.
Try taking the blankets down and see what happens.
Perhaps a bit of noisy reflections will be preferable to dead.

[wing]

Make sure the drums sound good in the room and be CERTAIN that the phase relationships between mics are correct. When I mix stuff that someone else has tracked, nine times out of ten the drums aren't in phase and when I reverse the polarity of certain mics, the drums just come to life. I am constantly amazed at the number of people who completely ignore this step in the tracking process.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

heck yea!

i love you Chris!!

answer your phone!

[wing]

...buy a tape machine.

that would make it easier, for sure...

[wing]

oh yeah, and you might want to read through these two threads (from over a year ago):

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=2906
http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=3085

they helped me immensely. best of luck!

[Brett Siler]

Sometime fliping the polarity doesn't work really. Because the when mulitple mics are placed at diffent heights or lengths from the drums the sound will hit the mikes at different times. This can cause a weird "phasing" sound which pretty much cancles out certain frequencies. When you flip the sound wave up side down it can be out of phase because the sound is still hitting the mic at the same time.

Since you have Pro Tools you can zoom up on the tracks highlight the and line up the sound waves, that way it would be like they all got the sound source at the same time. I just had to do this on a track and the drum sound improved vastly.

If the phase issue are real extreme then that may not work but it's worth a try...

[Slider]

With regards to phase, I start by putting up the kick and snare against the overs and try flipping until the low end clears up.
Then I do the same with the toms.
You be surprised how much flipping even just the floor tom mic can alter the sound.
Be careful of chasing your tail. You might get the phase of two mics sounding good together only to realise that you messed something else up.
Make sure everything works together.
Don't over think the phase thing, I suspect your problems are your drums themselves or listening to just close mics unprocessed.
That can be very boring.

Getting some compression going will greatly liven up your drums.
The only time I don't use compression on drums is when I actually want a dead sound, or it's jazz or something I want very clean.
In bigger spaces I find I don't need nearly as much compression as in dead spaces.
A dead space squashed to death can sound pretty cool.
Try a room mic or two. Try sqaushing the room mic with your RNC or a plugin.
Try busing all the drum mics together and squashing them. You can blend in the compressed tracks or kill the uncompressed sounds completly.

Try some different heads on your kit or experiment with tuning.
I find that thicker heads sometimes make the drums sound smaller overall.

Good luck

[cgarges]

Be careful of chasing your tail. You might get the phase of two mics sounding good together only to realise that you messed something else up.
Make sure everything works together.

A-freaking-men!!!!!

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC