What are good recording cymbals???

[gillentine]

I want to believe that I could buy certain Crash, Hi Hats, Ride and so forth that would make the hours of recording drums go much better. I'm so sick of crappy sounding cymbals that I'm willing to buy the best out there no matter the cost. What are the best for recording. What brands? You can never tell by tapping on them in the store and so on, so any knowledge would be appreciated. Thanks.

[junkstar]

Yeah, nice thought. Have 'em on hand for those 'emergency' dates. My fear is that great sounding cymbals + lousy drummers = broken cymbals.

[chetatkinsdiet]

I have a set that I always use in the studio that sound great. The crashes crash and then get out of the way. The rides sound great...some wash, but not too much. Nice ping from the bell.
Here's what I use:
Istanbul Thin 16" crash
Istanbul Med Thin 17" crash
Istanbul Thin 18" crash
Istanbul Thin 19" crash
Istanbul Sultan 20" ride
and on the hats...i alternate between the following:
13" Zildjian K hats
14" Paiste 602 vintage hats
14" Istanbul Funky Rock hats (worst name ever for a cymbal, but sound very nice)

Later,
m

I can't recomend these Traditional Istanbul line of crashes more for studio work.

[JASIII]

I'm a big fan of zildjian K 's and k sessions. I like smaller , thinner crashes for studio stuff, 16" med thin crash or thin crash. I've found that heavier rides, like zildjian constantinople mediums are too loud in most situations. I've had good luck matching different hi-hats, like a zildjian A on the bottom and a K or constantinople on the top.

[eeldip]

smaller, thinner, darker, quieter, more complex.

if you run thru a buncha cymbals at the local store you can find all sorts of suprising recording cymbals. Ks are always good.

but i got this azuka zildjian crash (latin hand/stick crash) that sounds awesome recorded, it was totally cheap too.

your ears can find them, just look for the above characteristics and test a whole buncha them. although heed the above warnings.. smaller, thinner cymbals break more easily.

frankly, wuhans- with a bit of duct tape on bottom- sound pretty decent to me. they have a "hand made" complexity that is interesting to hear recorded. slight trashiness is good for recorded cymbals, takes away the "white noise" feel that bright thick cymbals can have.

wuhans are silly cheap if you can find them.

[HuskerDude]

Kildjian K and K customs, Neinl Byzance series, and the thinner Istanbuls all sound great on record.
I tend to like big, thin cymbals to record with. Trashy and good wash.

[ataraxia]

hey has anyone used meinl cymbals, i always see thier ads, but i don't know anyone who has used them.

[joel hamilton]

I like to have a good variety of thicknesses/ sizes around for crashes and rides. If the decay fits the tempo of the song, that usually seems to be more important than even the quality of the cymbal itself sometimes...

Having the right cymbal for recording just requires having a LOT of cymbal choices in your bag. Listen to the decay times of the cymbals for each song.

In a perfect world, I would have the same cymbal, maybe a Paiste signature or zildian A and K series in all the usual sizes. It is amazing how going down one inch can make a song or part really work well.

[eeldip]

yea, let me clarify what i mean by smaller..

generally if you think an 18" crash works well live, a 17 or 16 will sound better recorded. but as pointed out above, sometimes longer sustain really helps.

however, those 26", 24" rides are a real bitch. never worked for me.

[chetatkinsdiet]

All good comments so far. I'm such a gear junky I've got about 80 or so cymbals to choose from. Thick, thin, Zildjian, Paiste, Meinl, Ufip, Istanbul, A, K, etc.....
Just like everything else, it all depends on the song. But, as someone mentioned earlier, sizing down a bit from your normal live setup seems to work well....that is assuming that you've got a nice live setup. Thinner though is the key for the studio. Thicker crashes seem to be just too much. I think the key for a studio crash is to do it's thing and then get out of the way. A burst of energy is what works well. Rides are so personal, but a bit of a wash is nice in the studio. Too pingy sounds goofy in most situations.
As for the meinl questions...they make some great cymbals. They also make a few budget or student lines....like everyone else. But they are in the same league as Zild, Paiste and Sabian. I happen to think the Istanbuls, K Zildjians, Bosph, etc....these are all a step above the rest.
later,
m

[drumsound]

Another tip on buying cymbals. Put them on stands and listen. Those cymbal walls in music stores are doing the instruments a HUGE disservice. You'll get all kinds of weird reflections from the wall and the other cymbals. If they sound good on a stand away from the display then put them on a drum-set and listen to them. How do they sound with the drums? Keep in mind a crash is used with a BD or SD about 95% of the time. How do the hats sound when you lay into them for a hard groove? You must try to simulate musical moments for your listening tests. Bring your other cymbals to the shop and see how the new ones blend with the old ones.

[gillentine]

all good advice. Thanks alot. Now I got something to go on when I go to buy.
Thanks again.

[Paul Fury 161]

Hiya. I work in a drum store, and play drums as a second instrument, but have been recording for ages so I'm very into the drum thing. I'll second everything said about thinner, smaller, darker, more complex....all true.Certain cymbals do rely on being heavy, though, particularly rock type rides (gives them more ping) and some heavy hats are good for the fusion/funk thing (heavy hats can be tighter and crisper (not always).
In general, for crashes, i use zildjian "A" 15-19 thin or medium thins, zildjian "K" same sizes but usually thin only, paiste 2002 same sizes thin crash also.These'll do most things.
Also, Wuhan RULE for some stuff.They are the oldest cymbal maker company on the planet (reputedly 1000 years wow!!!) and their chinas are the most authentic, very good. If you're in the UK, european distributor Stagg sells cymbals made by wuhan, and they're super cheap and very good - i prefer their sh series splashes in 10 and 12 to almost anything at any price- lovely.

Istanbul, Bosphorus, UFIP and Sabian also make great stuff...not keen on the sabian crashes though, dunno why.Great rides and hats though!

My personal stock at the mo ;

Zildian 14" A new beat hats (60's era)
Paiste 14" 602 Sound Edge hats (70's era)

Zildjian 17" and 19" K dark thin crashes (90's) (I want a 15 and 16 as well!)

Zildjian 18" A thin crash (I want a 16! as well!)

Zildjian 22" A Ping Ride (70's)

Sabian 10 and 12 AAX splashes

Stagg 8, 10 and 12 SH series splashes

It's all good ;-p

Hope this helps,

Seasons greetings to all,

Paul Fury 161

[cgarges]

Spending money on cymbals is where I see the biggest number of drummers dropping the ball. With decent heads and some tuning knowledge, you can get a useable sound out of almost any drumkit in good shape. With cymbals, you can't really do anything to improve the sound, so you need to buy cymbals that sound good.

What are cymbals that sound good? That's a purely asthetic question? Here's a couple things that you can do to identify your asthetic prefernces:

1) Identify what the cymbals that you see frequently and don't like have in common. Avoid buying those cymbals.

2) Identify cymbals that you think sound good. Really learn to hear what you proefer in those cymbals over other ones. Listen for cymbals with these charactreistics. Don't look for them, listen for them, as many cymbal companies have DRASTICALLY different-sounding cymbals within the same lines and models.

3) Talk to someone you've recorded who has consistenly great-sounding cymbals. If you can talk them into it, have them help you pick out some cymbals that you like.

There are great-sounding new cymbals that you can walk into your local retailer and buy and there are great-sounding used cymbals out there for both very high and very reasonable prices. In either case, don't settle for something of which you're not sure.

Hope this helps.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[JohnDavisNYC]

good call chris on the 'same line, different sound' thing. i have this huge pile of prototype cymbals from sabian, and they're from when jojo was developing his signature line, and there are cymbals that look almost the same that range in sound from 40 pound trash can lid to perfect old k copy to amen break sample sounding... crazy. even the same model will vary depending on the character of that particular hunk of alloy.

don't think just because it says 'k custom' on it it's only going to be a jazz cymbal.

john