NOS Tubes vs. New Stock

[KennyLusk]

I had the chance this weekend to audition a (bonafide) NOS GE 12AX7 preamp tube next to a new Tesla/JJ ECC83S in my mic pre and really noticed very little difference between the 2.

Sonically, the Tesla actually gave me more transients but the overall response, smoothness, tone and warmth were virtually undetectable.

So if you're thinking about upgrading the tubes in your mic/instrument pre and are shopping NOS, you might want to consider some of the new stock tubes that are getting good reviews. The difference can be $20-60.

Anyone else finding the same results out there?

Disclaimer: I'm not talking about high end Telefunken's or Mullards (which I can't afford).

[joel hamilton]

In my experience, unless you get something that is old (forget about the stupid "vintage" moniker applied to anything more than 8 years old these days) that is of superior quality, it is just old.

I got four telefunken diamond base gold pin 12ax7's for a piece of gear we have at the studio, and it really brought that thing to life. I also tried some NOS GE tubes I have in my UA 2-610 and it got a little better, but not that much better than any new tube would have made it probably (in a subjective "better" way).

This seems to be true af anything old. Replacing your soundcraft ghost with a shitty mixer from the late 60's will not instantly give you better results. For sure, this is true with tubes, especially with people selling things as "NOS" that probably saw some usage somewhere else in their 50 years on this planet...

[Scodiddly]

I don't worry about getting NOS tubes. There are usually plenty of other areas that benefit more from another $20, even in a tube amp that works pretty well already.

[Coco]

It also depends on the tube. I tried some nos Amperex (Philips tubes made in Holland) 12AX7's in my fender Quad Reverb which were kind of dark and grainy. I then put in some nos USA made Philips tubes from the early 80's and the difference was night and day. The Philips were a little cleaner a bright compared to the Amperex. Just cuz some dude on ebay says they are nos it does not mean they are. Different brands have different tonal qualities. Mullard rock in guitar amps because they have this thing thing they do to the midrange, while a Telefunken would be generally a more open sounding tube. It probably depends on what you are putting them in. Most new guitar amps are designed to be used with new production tubes that run hotter and have more voltage going to the plates than lets say your old Hiwatt or Marshall or Fender. A lot of hi end tube mic pre builders still spec their pre amps with high quality TESTED nos tubes, or at least offer them as an option. They probably would do that unless it made some kind of a difference. I have retubed all of my guitar and bass amps with nos tubes and it made a difference in all of them. I am not saying all new production tubes are crap, just some of them. The Winged "C" brand are very good Russian made tubes. I also know guys who love the new Tesla tubes in their amps. YMMV.

[neve1073]

Totally depends on the pre, the mic or the amplifier you are putting the tube into; and it depends on the NOS tube (eg, is it up to speck?).

[KennyLusk]

I don't have a device to test the tube so I don't know if it's up to spec or not. It's a long plate design which from my experience really puts out the mids hot and fat. I pulled it from an old piece of gear I happened across recently and is authentic, near as I can tell.

Since it seems authentic and my new Tesla's stand right up to it I thought I'd comment on it here since so many tape Opper's take the time to upgrade their tubes and (rightfully) invest in NOS and Used stock.

Even in my cheapest mic pre I've always been able to hear a distinct difference between every tube I've ever plugged in and was a little mystified at this little GE tube not making a show of it.

That's not to say the sound was unpleasant because since it sounded so much like the Tesla's. I've been really stoked about the performance from the Tesla's and can recommend them to anyone looking for a cheap upgrade that's noticeably worth the $20.

They're also very much smoother than Sovtek 12AX7's, especially the LPS (long plate).

Joel's comment on the Telefunken's actually reassured me though of the absolute value of a set of "Holy Grail's". GE's are not exactly Holy Grail's but some folks (as he mentioned) tout them as being so on Ebay.

I just wanted to provide a little quality info that might save a few guys some hard-earned dinero's.

[eeldip]

i really like using GEs for hi-fi applications. mic preamps included.

mostly cause you can get them either NOS or lightly used for about the same or only slightly more than new tubes.

also, i kinda feel bad for the people in eastern europe living near these tube facilities. i did some paralegal work dealing with the organic solvent spills associated with the GE facility here in the bay area. tube manufacturing is a NASTY business, if you live anywhere near a plant, even if it has been closed for 40 years or so.. lets just say, i would put your tomato plants in planters rather than in the earth.

[soundguy]

upgrading tubes with ONE tube in hand is sorta like boiling a big pot of water to cook one piece of pasta. Its quite possible that the particluar old tube you had performed identically to the particular new tube you had there, its also possible that if you had ten old and ten new you'd find one out of the twenty that fit the performance you want to get the closest. This is my experience with tubes and think its so wierd that people will pay $100 for a preamp tube, you need a fucking handful usually to find a good one. If you have a 12ax7 circuit there are other tubes besides a 12ax7 thhat will work, this is something to think about...

dave

[@?,*???&?]

Can't believe we have another tube post so close to the last one.

NOS RCAs are the sound of rock.

Accepting what Dave just suggested, I'd rather search through a whole stack of RCAs than a stack of any other tube available.

[Derrick]

It can make a huge difference in the right circuit! Old RCAs, Mullards, Teles, and Amperex are always where it's at. Unlike these tubes, there are many changes in design over the years with GE, Sylvania, and some other old US tubes. Like Dave said... you cannot go by just one tube because of inconsistencies and changes found over the years in these tubes. Also, do the pins have a layer of dirt/corrosion on them? Does this tube have many hours on it? Is this a lesser tube in an inconsistent batch? This isn't something you have to worry about too much with the above holy grails which is why they are... well, ya know. Keep in mind too that there was a crazy amount of rebranding back then and though it may say DuMont, it may be a Mullard. Ya gotta know what you are looking for/at. As for recent made tubes, there are good tubes as well as really bad tubes. Stay away from anything Sovtek and your ahead of the game!!!! Very bad "mid heavy (not a good kind of mid), dull, dead and unexciting" if I were to try to give an impression of their characteristic. EI is great, but prone to microphonics, JJ is great in some things (ya gotta try to see). Still, nothing like the above holy grails!! So yea, it can make a big difference but not all circuits will benefit from a $100 Telefunken. Ya just gotta try.

[SKEETER]

I think it is likely that new tubes are better, for one reason: RUSSIA.
While the west has been perfecting transistors and integrated circuits, russian manufacturers have been perfecting tubes. Russia continued to use tubes in their aircraft and spacecraft for years and has turned tube making into an intense science. I have Sovtek tubes in my amp, and they sound great.

[vvv]

All I can say is my fave tube is my avatar, thank you very much.