tracking multiple mics to a single channel pre...?

[wing]

i have a single channel mic pre that i want to run drums through, but i'm probably going to have 3-4 mics on the drums. it wouldn't seem to make much sense to only offer the pre to one of the four mics... so i was wondering, is it ok to run the mics all into my console (which already has pres), then group them together and run them through a bus into the single channel pre i have got? or is it not a good idea to mic pre a signal twice?

my single channel pre has a 0/+30 dB input pad switch i can switch on and off, if that makes any difference for this.

[Bear]

Though I have no idea if this is technically "okay," it can be pretty damn cool. I once took all my drum tracks, ran them through a pre and overloaded that monkey until the drums were about as distorted as satan's butthole. It sounded excellent.

But if you want clean drums with this technique, I'm probably not the best person to ask.

[joel hamilton]

Of course you CAN, but if it was me, (which doesnt mean much)

I would use the board pre's, and then use one really good mic in front of the kit somewhere, with the good pre.

Flavor to taste with the direct mics going through what you seem to consider lesser mic pre's

IMO the end result would suffer more (or be ten times cooler maybe, who knows) from bussing a bunch of mics to one pre. If you get them to tape (or whatever) in some decent way, you can always destroy them, or mess with them by sending them back through the "good" pre one at a time and re-printing, ya know?

At least that way, you can pick and choose which ones get the "line level through the pre again" trick, and which dont.

[penelec]

Blue, this is really interesting -- I'd agree with Joel except I'd love to actually hear the difference between (1) sending the whole submix into the pre and (2) keeping one good room mic discrete. You could post 'em for our scientific inquiry, and we'll stab and poke like AE scientists.

I always like to fall back on one good mic thru one good pre that gives one good sound I can use out front, and then fill in behind it with the character mics/pres/whatever, and keep them on seperate channels until mixdown so I can still eq 'til the last second.

By the way, what kind of pre is it?

[helstab]

I would use the pre on a good mic out front like mentioned to tape.record. then group the other drum mics and try the pre on them. Then you get the best of both and have more to play with.

But, what do i know?

-MAtt

[wayne kerr]

uhhh Blu... what's the 'good' pre you're talking about?

[wing]

well i went ahead and purchased the bellari RP503 tube pre w/ EQ and compressor. I was sold on it for having the tube as well as the EQ and compressor built in for being only $200. I wanted to give my drums that thick and hopefully warm TUBE sound, not just one mic. but if i had to, if that's what it came down to, what do you think would work best on the pre? snare? i do like punchy snares... i was thinking of doing a room/overhead large diaphragm condenser and running it through there as well, but i wasn't sure if that would pick up a lot more noise than anything else once ran through the preamp... but i really don't mind noise, even a little bit. as long as it's not really noticable and loud.

any suggestions?

[wayne kerr]

What kind of drum sound are you after? Maybe name a few records that have the kind of drums you like...

[wing]

What kind of drum sound are you after? Maybe name a few records that have the kind of drums you like...

please see this thread! http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=2906

in there i mentioned stuff by john vanderslice, broken social scene, and earlimart.

oh yea, and i forgot to mention: i really like the sound of the drums on the spoon album "girls can tell". specifically the song "fitted shirt". really fat and thick to me.

that's the sound i want. fat, thick, punchy, full, warm.... anything but all thin and weak. that's like death to me as a drummer!

[Dr. Bell]

Broken Social Scene style drums? It strikes me that they're just compressed to death. In a good way, of course. My method is to put my two mxl-603s a little too close to the kit so they overload a bit, then compress the results pretty hard. The highs and midranges are crunchy at first but then they smooth out some when you compress them. The sound is sort of in the same ballpark.

[wayne kerr]

Blu,

Based on your mic selection, I'd recommend the following:

Your main drum tracks are gonna come from a modified Decca tree, sometimes called "kneehigh" or "Ringo" or "LCR" miking. You're gonna use 5 mics on the kit.

Arrange your mic stands in an equillateral triangle - the apex farther from the kit. Did you ever get that LD condenser? If so, put that on your apex (which should be dead center on the kit) if not, use your 504. You mentioned some AT dynamics? Do you have two of the same kind? Good. Put those on either side of your triangle (I'm not a math major, but y'know, the "points"). This array will pick up everything really well except the kick and a little snare wire - so, use your nondescript kick drum mic in the kick like you normally would and put the 57 - you guessed it, under the snare.

Patch all your mics to your console pres except the center one which will go to your Bellari. Be very careful here, because it wil be very easy to clip that tube at close distances. Your outlying mics should be hitting tape at -1dB to 0 dB range. Your center mic should not exceed -3VU to avoid HF distortion. Squash the holy living hell out of your center mic on the Bellari comp - try a 10:1 ratio and adjust the threshold to give yourself about 12 dB of gain reduction. Set your attack fairly slow and your release as fast as your comp can go. Your outlying mics can go to tape w/o compression, but if you have another pair of comps, I'd go for about 6 dB at 4:1 or so.

Check your phase between the three mics by going mono and listening for any gaps in the frequency spectrum - adjust the distance between the mics as necessary to alleviate this, but try to maintain the "equillateralness" as much as possible.

When mixing, the center channel will provide your "punch" while the LR will provide your stereo field. Give it a try, it's really cool if you do it right...

good luck

[wing]

Broken Social Scene style drums? It strikes me that they're just compressed to death. In a good way, of course. My method is to put my two mxl-603s a little too close to the kit so they overload a bit, then compress the results pretty hard. The highs and midranges are crunchy at first but then they smooth out some when you compress them. The sound is sort of in the same ballpark.

can you tell me more about the vocal treatment on "stars and sons"? i thought it sounded really cool and i'm interested in learning about how they got there...

[helstab]

triangle shmriangle. Hang the Ld just a little over top close to the kit. mic the snare side or bottom, and the kick a foot or so back. Compress the snare while recording. Compress the overheads after.then compress the kick. I think the compressed LD overhead mic gives that good full ROOMy kit sound. The other mics just help you shape the sound.

[wayne kerr]

> triangle shmriangle.

Hey Blu, obviously this guy knows EVERYTHING, so don't waste your time doing what I said - just listen to him, because obviously I'm a fucking idiot. I haven't been doing this since 1987 or anything, so I don't have a clue. Yeah, just stick the mics wherever you fucking please, don't worry about phase, that's just a bunch of crap they talk about in MIX, it's like totally, not lo-fi, y'know, and like he says, when you compress, just compress - don't worry about the ratio or threshold, and those attack and release times? Pssshhtttt... don't bother - just compress, like the dude said.

Sorry I even wasted your time.

[xonlocust]

i'm pretty hip to chocolates suggestions. really concentrate on your peak apex mic. don't bring them all up at once, spend a lot of time with just that mic and a pair of headphones on and move it around while it's being played to make sure you get a good sound. then fill in with the rest.