That Nick Drake Guitar Sound

[ottokbre]

any clue?

it's gotta be a dynamic or a ribbon. it's so dark and non obtrusive.
i don't know enough about the guy to even know what he played.

right now i'm playing a maple acoustic, which i love for it's cut and
definition. i play a lot of 'catto picking style. i could really use a limiter
becuase of that. regardless, i've played with various single mic placments
with a large condenser of the bout, the sound hole and the neck joint. i get
some good sounds, but often a bit to "blood on the tracks" mid-rangey.

how are you getting mellow but well defined acoustic sounds?

[marqueemoon]

any clue?

it's gotta be a dynamic or a ribbon. it's so dark and non obtrusive.
i don't know enough about the guy to even know what he played.

right now i'm playing a maple acoustic, which i love for it's cut and
definition. i play a lot of 'catto picking style. i could really use a limiter
becuase of that. regardless, i've played with various single mic placments
with a large condenser of the bout, the sound hole and the neck joint. i get
some good sounds, but often a bit to "blood on the tracks" mid-rangey.

how are you getting mellow but well defined acoustic sounds?

I would try micing near the bridge, making sure the mic is far enough away to be out of proximity effect-land.

Nick played small bodied guitars - OM-style Martins and Guilds. It makes sense considering the tunings he used. A bigger body would have turned the low notes into a flubby mess.

[engine ear]

Old strings tuned down. On pink moon his strings sound like they are really old and flat.

D A D G D F#

or

C G C F C E and capo at the 2nd fret

[sthslvrcnfsn]

"engine-ear" Hahaha! Thanks, i needed that!

anything nick drake is awesome. <----[relavence]

jim

[aurelialuz]

it's gotta be a dynamic or a ribbon. it's so dark and non obtrusive.
i don't know enough about the guy to even know what he played.

there is a photo on his second album of him playing a smaller body guild.

a problem i have a lot resurfaced this weekend micing an acoustic. i kept throwing bigger and bigger sounding mics at this thing, ribbon, condenser, SD, LD, it just kept getting wider and more disparate and would NOT fit in the mix. so i remembered what we call the "david bowie" theory around here, an put a 57 on it and the problem was solved. we call it the david bowie theory cause all that classic hunky dory era stuff has some ordinary dynamic on it and it fits so well. the guitar still sounds like a guitar, and because it's not fighting for placement it fits right in and sounds great in the larger whole.

nick drake's stuff sounds to me like they went this way.

alex

[ottokbre]

thats interesting, cus the best thing i have thrown on it were my little electret omnis wityh the 1/8" jack!

but i think the source has a lot to do with it. him playing OM's makes sence. I've always been drawn to quieter acoustic guitars like that. I grew up around everyone having boomy big Martin D-12's and have gotten tired of it.

[marqueemoon]

i kept throwing bigger and bigger sounding mics at this thing, ribbon, condenser, SD, LD, it just kept getting wider and more disparate and would NOT fit in the mix.

Sooo true.

I think the opposite can be true when you're dealing with a solo acoustic guitar with a vocal. Sometimes you can't make it sound big and wooly enough.

[kayagum]

According to his biography (Nick Drake- Patrick Humphries), his studio releases all were recorded on his mahogany Guild small body. And (if my memory serves me from reading the book) Pink Moon tracks were one take recordings with 3 mics (I'm assuming vocal, close and room mic). One overdub- the piano solo on the title track.

What you're hearing is not the recording. What you're hearing:

* All mahogany guitar- having a mahogany top really makes it have a darker tone. Current production guitar that's most like this guitar is the Martin 15 series, particularly the 00 and 000 models.

* Detuned strings- darker yet. Probably heavier gauge to handle the lower pitches. Open tunings with great resonances.

* Long fingernails- towards the end of his life, Nick Drake was reputed to have incredibly long fingernails to the point of looking pretty hideous. But the tone.....

* Nick Drake himself. His fingerpicking technique rivals any classically trained guitar player. He has complete control over his vibrato, timbre, open ringing. Pure genius. He's the polar opposite of Jimi Hendrix- the story of Hendrix's guitar tech trying to play his rig and get squalling feedback. Shove any mortal in a chair with a Martin 00-15, and there's no way you'll get anywhere near the full range that Nick Drake did- no pramp or mic will get you there.

That's why records are attributed to musicians, not engineers (despite what this board thinks )

[ottokbre]

That's why records are attributed to musicians, not engineers (despite what this board thinks )

well, thats why i hang out at this board my friend. 'cus you'll get more of that understanding than anywhere else.

[honkyjonk]

Yes those mics had to be ribbons or dynamics. I can't get anywhere close to a Nick Drake sound with a condensor, or with newer strings or with about 98 percent of all guitars out there (barring the obvious technique issue: I am not Nick Drake) but an older guitar, and personally I feel it's not a Martin, that sound we associate with Drake, it's more in the gibson family of tone, (though it's undoubtedly a Guild small body he played on the recordings), and with older strings with a 57 or 421 or a ribbon it starts to sound a little closer.
As for the 3 mics used on Pink Moon, I didn't know that. I thought it was probably two at the most. It sounds like there is very little room sound on that album. Or reverb. It's so dry. The guitar is anyway. I wonder if that third mic was used to stereo mic the guitar. It just doesn't sound like there's any room in those recordings to me.
Five Leaves Left seems too have a bit more reverb on it, and the strings sound newer on that album. But my true love is and will always be Pink Moon. If there's a better acoustic tone out there, I like to hear it.
As a side note, because I'm so infatuated with certain steel string players' tone, I've found that on several recordings I've made of late, the guitar sounds a lot like John Fahey's early albums, (Again, the tone, not the playing) I was really close miking with a 57 in my room which is rediculousley reflective, hardwood everywhere. And I was compressing a bit, but I think that combination of close miking bite and upfrontness, with the room still seeping into the mic because it's so reflective, sounds like early Fahey. Sorry I'm rambling, but you gotta love Fahey tone, if you love Nick Drake tone. Or maybe not I don't know . . . .

[E-Rock]

Slightly off topic - My wonderful girlfriend just got me hooked on Nick Drake.
Holy Shit! I can't belive I've been missing this all these years.
He was AMAZING!
Carry on.....

[ottokbre]

I'm pretty new to Drake too. I'm actually kinda pissed no one told me about him before. I think all the reissues are helping people realize his stuff again. Pink Moon and Five Leaves Left are my faves.

[marqueemoon]

you gotta love Fahey tone, if you love Nick Drake tone

"Dusty" is best description of that sound I've been able to come up with.

I'm planning on doing some live to two track guitar/vocal recordings tomorrow and this thread is really making me want to try blending sounds from different mics on acoustic. I also really want to try putting up a room mic, squashing it, and putting some of that in the mix to thicken things up a little.

[kayagum]

I think he was able to get his tones straight from his fingers. What you do when you fingerpick is pluck the string with the flesh of your fingertip, and just brush the string with the fingernail. I think it's called a "rest stroke" (BTW, anyone know what "free stroke" is?).

Anyway, that's how you get some amazing tone off of fingerpicking.

[ottokbre]

yeah, i never ever play acoustic with a pick. and if i do, i use a felt pick. i like playing a maple body because it tends to compensate and add brightness where my hands dampen. but there is something to be said about the pop of a lite mahogany guitar. i fancy a mahogany parlor guitar for that very reason.....mmm...slotted tuners...