underneath the piano

[CDSager]

so i just finished working on an album on which most of the piano parts were mic'ed from underneath the piano. i used a pair of MHBOs and i had one under the higher string sounding board and one under the lower board. i made sure the mics were in phase. overall i am pretty happy with the results but everyone i have talked to has been all wierd about the under the piano technique. anyone here have any experience with this technique and not ashamed to talk about it?


rok und rol

[jdsowa]

There is an interview with, I believe, Wynton Marsalis in one of those producer interview books put out by Mix (I think) and he says that for at least one project he mic'd underneath the piano. Can't remember if that's all they did or if it was in tandem with other mics. I have tried mic'ing the bottom of an upright piano, for what it's worth, and there is really no discernable benefit to doing this

[NewAndImprov]

I record a really great jazz pianist a lot, and after much trial and error, the sound we got that he likes the most is this: a pair of 414's above the strings, and an AKG 451 under the high end of the piano. This is on a Steinway grand, very nice piano. The 451 adds a high-end sparkle that cuts through nicely. He says that this was a common technique in LA studios in the '60's, I'd never heard of it before, but, hey, we tried it and it works.

[Professor]

I have and do mic pianos from underneath (grands) and behind (uprights) all the time. I often would use this in live performance situations when the performers are concerned about the look of the stage. Often I would use it as a spot mic to supplement a 'main pair' covering the whole stage. Typically I would use something simple like a single Audio Technica AT-3525 (now the 3035) or perhaps a Gefell 692/M-70 mic. And that is typically for classical recordings, nevermind jazz or rock. Ultimately the bottom of the piano gives you the unobstructed sound borad which is really where the sound comes out. Walk around an upright sometime and this will be immediately obvious. Often times the sound is cleaner than over the strings, though if you are not careful it can be kind of dull or too mid-rangey, so choose the mic and placement carefully.

-J

[DarkMoon]

I mic my upright with two mics on either end: one with the low keys and one with the highs. Then I pan them to their respective channels and viola! It's like you're AT the piano!!

I dunno. Sounds pretty cool.

[cvanwinkle]

I've tried that with a combination of two condensers inside the lid. Also instead of a mic underneath, I've also used a c-ducer, although moreso for when doing PA (these are harder to feedback). Lately I've been setting up two mics outside of the piano, but facing towards the opening of the lid, maybe about 2ft away. The upright piano equivalent to micing a grand underneath would to be mic the upright from the back (not too uncommon).

One of the weirdest techniques I've used was an RE-20 facing down into the whole that is just at the foot of the grand (NY 7ft Steinway for that session). I also had two 414's closer to the hammers with the lid on the long stick. I originally put up the RE-20 as an afterthought because the drummer wanted more piano in his headphones. The sound on that one mic was so good (for that particular session), I think the mix with that was better than the more standard two condensers.

Anyone else try this? It might have been one of those lucky recording flukes. The session was for a jazz quartet and the pianist mainly comp'd in the third and fourth octaves, but utilized the whole range when soloing.

-C

[Scodiddly]

At the moment I typically use a couple of small condensers up by the hammers (a pair of Oktava MK012s, on a stereo bar and pointing past each other from the middle of the keyboard range) and then a Sennheiser MD-421 on the soundboard somewhere. Last time was through the largest hole in the metal "harp", but I'm planning on trying the soundboard from below since it seems easier and offers more placement choices. The soundboard mic really fills out a lot of the sound.