Red tape hindering my job search...

[snuffinthepunk]

...and this is oh so frustrating. Tomorrow morning I have to call the Tennessee Department of Labor to find out how I can go about getting an internship at a place that I know is interested in having me on board, Quad Studios of Nashville. According to Tennessee laws, from what I understand, all unpaid interns must be given school credit. The school I went to, Full Sail, now has an "extended studies in the media arts" "course" that puts graduates back into student status and adds credits to their transcript. This supposedly allows graduates to get an internship wherever. However, the Tennessee Department of Labor is a little bit unhappy with this, hence all the red tape in the way. Basically that leaves the situation stating that no Full Sail graduate can legally have an unpaid internship in the state of Tennessee. How great is THAT! I moved here for opportunity and there's a chance that I will have none. I spent a lot of time researching and talking to recording studios, it would really suck to have that wasted. Of course I might be able to find other audio related work, but then it would take double the time to find a job and double the time to work my way into a recording studio. Frustrating, frustrating, frustrating. I have to speak with the manager, AGAIN, tomorrow...hopefully after I speak to the D.O.L. If I have no other choice, I'm going to have to ask to be paid. I know he wants me on board over there, but this government crap is gettin on both of our nerves. ARGH!

[/end rant]

[TA]

I wonder what the minimun amout you would need to get paid in order to by pass the DOL red tape. Maybe if the studio paid you a per diem? whatever that minimum is required by the DOL.

If there is no DOL min, and it just needs to be some kind of $ amount? Maybe the studio can take you on as a paid intern and pay you something like a $1 week? (just throwing a # out there) ...possable loop whole?

either way.......kind of puts you in a awkward position having to ask the studio to pay you something for what is a unpaid position. But maybe the studio mgr will work with you on that. You should find out that DOL min!

Good luck with everything.

[snuffinthepunk]

i found in the tennessee state constitution that people must be paid at least minimum wage for services or whatever. however I bet a simple contract waiving my rights to compensation could overcome that. I need to ask the legal aid society about that though. And, yeah, I really want to work at Quad but asking for money would be odd. I might not have a choice though, begging for minimum wage and spending every available waking hour that I have there. At the moment I'm having to look into other studios. We'll see what happens.

[Professor]

See, this is a place where I'm going to fall on the side of the DOL, and I gotta say that I'm really glad to see that someone out there is cracking down on this.
I know it pisses you off, and I'm really sorry that's how it's going down for you... honest.
But I've ranted often about the problems with unpaid internships. Basically, the more guys that are lined up outside the studios willing to work long hours for months or even years without pay, the harder it is to actually get a paying gig. So the reason there aren't paid internships, even at minimum wage, is because so many folks will work for free.
The reason the government doesn't want you "volunteering" to work for free is that it's consider slavery, and that's something that was supposed to have been abolished around them parts back in the 1860s. So the state wants to know that you are being compensated either financially or educationally.
If the state DOL doesn't recognize Full Sail because of accreditation then that sucks. If it doesn't recognize your particular internship request because you've already graduated, then that's mostly just a bummer as far as timing.
Of course, if the state doesn't recognize out-of-state internships because they are protecting the students from their own programs, and they expect you to enroll in MTSU or something, then actually I think that's really cool... for MTSU, obviously not for anyone else.

A lot of folks also ask about "volunteering" at the business in the same way you might volunteer at a church or at the local Goodwill.
The catch there is that the studios are commercial businesses while churches and Goodwill are non-profit corporations. Non-profits can accept charitable donations without paying taxes to the government. Commercial business would have to claim the time you volunteer as income at fair market value (minimum wage) and they would have to pay income taxes and other fees on that income. And legally, you would not be covered under their insurance, bonding, worker's comp. or other coverage if they aren't paying into that system.

I know it sucks for your situation, but at least understanding it will give a better understanding of the part of business that always seems to escape musicians & related fields - the tax laws. For what it's worth, I hope you're able to find something, especially if it's someone willing to pay for your services.

-Jeremy

[snuffinthepunk]

The reason the government doesn't want you "volunteering" to work for free is that it's consider slavery, and that's something that was supposed to have been abolished around them parts back in the 1860s. So the state wants to know that you are being compensated either financially or educationally.

See? red tape man...anyone with half a wit about them could look and see that I'm not a "slave" per say. And I certainly would be compensated "educationally," I'd be learning as much junk as is humanly possible! Grrrrrrrrrrrr....ah well, I do have a list of places that do accept Full Sail's accredited internship program. Paragon, Blackbird, Dark Horse, CMT, there are places out there. I don't think I should discuss why Mark is iffy though.

[TA]

As in other industries companies take on unpaid internships. Magazine publishers, medicine, fashion, film...etc. Industries are flooded with unpaid interns with companies taking advantage of people, not to mention if you work for free your not only hurting yourself from a financial stand point but your contributing to the problem. (unless your volunteering your efforts to a nobel cause, of course). The fact that the government needs to intervien pretty much says it all, but I tend to think more idealistic at times, so......As the Professor said, as long as people are going to except not getting paid for work? Companies are going to take advantage of that free labor, unfortunatly. Not all companies, but more than not.....over all you get what you pay for.

What I really dont get is that the government has no problem letting you spend thousand of $ for years of education, but when you complete the programs and you are willing to work for free knowing in return your going to get some real world experience and further your education in the field.....they say nope, we are going to make it just a bit more difficult for you to get that hands on real deal exposure. Because the gov is not getting there cut if your not getting paid there not getting paid for the work you do....as mentioned, all about the tax laws.

I dont know how some people do it? How do ya work a fulltime un-paid internship and still pay your bills!?? ....oh yeah, now i remember, I used to eat like shit, sleep in awful places..and man did I really smell at times.

....did I go off topic...all this red tape. Its only slavery when you are FORCED to work without pay.
cut and dry

[Boogdish]

maybe you could "work" an hour a week at minimum wage and just happen to spend a lot of time hanging out in the studio getting real world experience when you're not there for "work."

[JGriffin]

All of my internships were unpaid...though at the newspaper my mother worked at they paid interns..."they have to be able to eat and get on the bus and pay rent," she'd say. She's right.

All the internships at my current studio are paid.

[Dingo]

Crazy idea alert! Maybe if you were doing research for a book or making a documentary the rules would be different? You could agree to have them pay you minimum wage, then you could book x number of hours a month in studio time that you never show up for?

[chris harris]

See, this is a place where I'm going to fall on the side of the DOL, and I gotta say that I'm really glad to see that someone out there is cracking down on this.
I know it pisses you off, and I'm really sorry that's how it's going down for you... honest.
But I've ranted often about the problems with unpaid internships. Basically, the more guys that are lined up outside the studios willing to work long hours for months or even years without pay, the harder it is to actually get a paying gig. So the reason there aren't paid internships, even at minimum wage, is because so many folks will work for free.

amen, brother! That's the same reason that we have a (paltry) Minimum Wage Law. it's also the same reason that we have labor unions in so many fields. glad to see you coming around, Jeremy!

your pal in solidarity,
chris

[snuffinthepunk]

What I really dont get is that the government has no problem letting you spend thousand of $ for years of education, but when you complete the programs and you are willing to work for free knowing in return your going to get some real world experience and further your education in the field.....they say nope, we are going to make it just a bit more difficult for you to get that hands on real deal exposure. Because the gov is not getting there cut if your not getting paid there not getting paid for the work you do....as mentioned, all about the tax laws.

ding ding ding =) All is cleared on a national level though, it's just TN stuff that has gotten in the way, and really only at the one place. It has just felt like a slap in the face, TN acknowledging that I spent bookoo bucks on an education in FL but tellin me I can't begin my career in their state. There's a solution though I don't know why the hang-up at Quad studios, there are a bunch of other places around here that willingly accept interns from my school. It's just weird.

Prof. and Chris, I agree with you as well. It is good that the D.O.L. protects people from being abused as interns. It is free work, but I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who would take advantage of that without providing possibilities for advancement. It's a protection, it's just been protecting me from getting a job at the place I want =) (on a side note, I wanted the position at Quad Studios so badly not just because it is a great great place, but because I really like the manager. He's a cool cat, very nice, intelligent, we seem to see eye to eye. It would end up being a very comfortable place for me to be. My school's lawyer and some lady at school are workin on a resolve though, hopefully it'll come through fast enough before i end up taking one of two other possibilities I have at the moment.)

[JGriffin]

Don't let it bother you, dude. Tennessee doesn't have any real big music towns anyway.

[TA]

...Tennessee doesn't have any real big music towns anyway.

I`ve never been there, but I thought Nashville was a happening music town? At least it used to be?

TA

[snuffinthepunk]

...Tennessee doesn't have any real big music towns anyway.

I`ve never been there, but I thought Nashville was a happening music town? At least it used to be?

TA

yeah as far as I know it's only behind L.A. and N.Y.

[ulriggribbons]

And, yeah, I really want to work at Quad but asking for money would be odd.

This strikes me as weird. You went to school, I'm assuming you've made some recordings somewhere.

At what point do you feel you'll be qualified to make minimum wage doing this? Until you can answer that, it's not much of a job search, is it?


Regards

ju