Spotify now requires Facebook account

[;ivlunsdystf]

FWIW, in my opinion the spotify-FB deal per se is not particularly troubling with regards to privacy and so forth

[Gregg Juke]

Actually, that's pretty much exactly what I would have said, except you had more documentation and facts, ;ivlunsdystf. I'm mostly a conservative politically, but I don't necessarily trust big business any better than I trust big government, and this has implications for both.

It would be great to say "No big deal; it'll all stop there," but it won't. And it is VERY hard to get the cat back in the bag once it's out. It'll be screaming, growling, hissing, and scratching... The nature of privacy is that it should be private. The old-school Internet never would have stood for this. Why should I be _forced_ to use one service I don't want to get access to another that I do? The only other choice offered is to use subterfuge, or "buy-in halfway," to paraphrase your work-around, Chris. How long do you think it would be before those "halfway in" would be forced go get "all in," with a boatload of personal information, or lose their accounts?

It's very hard to put a "face" on 800 million data files, Chris ("Facebook" or no). Once you and your personal info are digitized, and a dollar amount becomes associated with it, forget it.

[chris harris]

So, what can we do to prevent the digitally jack-booted thugs from coming after us?

You guys make it sound like what's done is done. Right? I mean, I only had to click one time to land on a page with your name, photo, email address and phone number. Exactly what information would you guys advise that I be guarded with?

I accept that with all of this information, more evil things than targeted advertising can be done. I just wonder, honestly, what we can do to prevent it. You're not going to make computers and the internet go away. And, almost every website on the internet (including TOMB) is taking advantage of the trading of info.

Can you successfully use the internet for marketing your music or even just for entertainment, without contributing to the downfall of the world?

[Gregg Juke]

I'm not sure that we can prevent it. But that doesn't mean having to cooperate with it.

I guess it's hard to explain the whole privacy thing to someone who hasn't had their privacy violated, or worked for the government, or a large agency, but I've dealt with all three, and I'm not a big fan of the last decade or so's increase in personal incursion on all fronts.

GJ

[Jitters]

I?m suspicious of the the whole deal, but basically I?m happier without everyone knowing that I just listened to Dancing Queen 30 times in a row.

[chris harris]

I'm not sure that we can prevent it. But that doesn't mean having to cooperate with it.

I guess it's hard to explain the whole privacy thing to someone who hasn't had their privacy violated, or worked for the government, or a large agency, but I've dealt with all three, and I'm not a big fan of the last decade or so's increase in personal incursion on all fronts.

GJ

I guess it's hard to understand why it would be hard to explain. When your privacy was violated, was it because of information you chose to share on the internet? How do you pick and choose when to, or not to cooperate with privacy violation?

I mean, as of now, Facebook doesn't require any information that I really consider "private" in order to have a FB profile. Why is having a FB account considered cooperating with privacy violation, but posting your full name, email address and phone number on the internet somehow is not?

I think this is a legit discussion for people in an industry that leans heavily on the internet for promotion. Everybody knows that privacy is a concern. But, it's not really clear at all which information puts us at risk. I'm not sharing my SSN or any of my bank account numbers online.

I'm genuinely curious about all of this. Like I said, I know that privacy is a concern. But, I think it's often just thrown out there generically with no real details about why it's a risk. I like using social networking like Facebook and Spotify to keep up with my friends. I use social networking to keep up with what's happening in the world. And, I use social networking to promote my band, my studio, and my label. Am I at risk? At risk for what?

[;ivlunsdystf]

I'm not sure that we can prevent it. But that doesn't mean having to cooperate with it.

I guess it's hard to explain the whole privacy thing to someone who hasn't had their privacy violated, or worked for the government, or a large agency, but I've dealt with all three, and I'm not a big fan of the last decade or so's increase in personal incursion on all fronts.

GJ

I guess it's hard to understand why it would be hard to explain. When your privacy was violated, was it because of information you chose to share on the internet? How do you pick and choose when to, or not to cooperate with privacy violation?

I mean, as of now, Facebook doesn't require any information that I really consider "private" in order to have a FB profile. Why is having a FB account considered cooperating with privacy violation, but posting your full name, email address and phone number on the internet somehow is not?

I think this is a legit discussion for people in an industry that leans heavily on the internet for promotion. Everybody knows that privacy is a concern. But, it's not really clear at all which information puts us at risk. I'm not sharing my SSN or any of my bank account numbers online.

I'm genuinely curious about all of this. Like I said, I know that privacy is a concern. But, I think it's often just thrown out there generically with no real details about why it's a risk. I like using social networking like Facebook and Spotify to keep up with my friends. I use social networking to keep up with what's happening in the world. And, I use social networking to promote my band, my studio, and my label. Am I at risk? At risk for what?

Don't worry about yourself. You have common sense. You will be fine. Worry about how the entire architecture of the new information-sharing systems is being set up. Worry about the 14 year old kids that instinctively trust the computer or the cellphone.

In debates like this I often see a response along the lines of "well, if you are smart, you won't give sensitive information to facebook!" This is a 'blame the user' mindset that does nothing to address the bigger issues of whether/how there should be acccountability/checks and balances built into the system. When one single person (namely Mark Zuckerberg) sits atop an enormous empire with only his investors to answer to, we are not likely to experience systems-design outcomes that are beneficial to users generally.

Zuckerberg, of course, endorses the 'blame the user' mindset and now has lobbyists working to propogate it in the capital.

Obviously we can't all stop using our facebook accounts. Some of us might; most of us won't unless something better comes along. But in the meantime we might as well support organizations like the Electronic Frontier Foundation and elected officials like Al Franken who are at least attempting to demand accountability measures to prevent huge new organizations from doing whatever the hell they want, users be damned.

And next time you see somebody endorsing the 'blame the user' mentality/rationalization, point out that it's not the most savvy imaginable user we should worry about. It's the least savvy users, of whom there are plenty.

[chris harris]

Thanks! That was a great answer! I absolutely support those things.