"You Pay Fees" Selling Tactics /rant

[kslight]

To satisfy my own curiosity, what is the true purpose of expecting the buyer to pay the Paypal fees on transaction? Is it something that someone saw some cheapass do and they just thought it sounded cool, or is there something I'm missing? I understand that Paypal charges 3%, I am no stranger to that concept. I also understand that when you sell on eBay, the seller pays the fees...eBay 9% and Paypal 3%.

I always thought the buyer pays shipping, seller pays fees concept is mutually fair. My B/S/T ads always reflect this.

I personally think that Paypal is mighty convenient for the seller, to be charging the buyer for it. Unless you like waiting a week for a check to arrive (if it arrives at all), and another 3-4 business days for it to clear, all the while sitting on whatever you're selling. I am fine spending 3% on my sale to have the money NOW, if I didn't need the money I probably wouldn't be selling in the first place. Waiting longer for other payment forms just seems against my own agenda.

In my opinion it is also a significant favor to the seller for you to buy something of theirs outside of eBay, so they avoid incurring the eBay fees, and requires a certain level of trust (honest sellers, etc) to happen. At least, avoiding eBay is my only reason to sell things here.

[boothnavy]

Here here! Couldn't agree more. Just charge more and bundle the costs if you care so much.

[kslight]

Here here! Couldn't agree more. Just charge more and bundle the costs if you care so much.

Exactly.

I think what bugs me is the phrasing.

Its like inviting your whole family to Thanksgiving dinner, where everyone brings something to the table (edible, hopefully), and charging them to use your restroom.

While I am sure there are situations where this would be preferable, its probably not the right thing to do. IMHO

[mrc]

Even though I'm on a mission to stop buying anything but parts for project gear I have boards for already, I still look at ads to see if there's a reasonable substitution at a cheaper price...when I see that, I go beserk happy clickin' to get away, and never go back. Um, I set a price I want, but you are going to pay 12% more...no the way this works, the guy with the cash has a max price, maybe you don't like that price, but he has cash, you have something to get rid of. The buyer only needs oxygen, water, food and shelter...if he has all of that, he really doesn't need what you have. Who has the hammer, lol...Every buyer should laugh their ass off at most sellers expectations. There's just soooo much money to be made with this gear we should probably be buying Lotto tickets instead... a trade education that will net 6 figures, and can't be teleported to a third world country, is only a couple or 3 grand and a very, very short time if you look around. They have a small price of investment that will make this stuff beer money...ymmv...

[The Scum]

Paypal User Agreement, section 4.6:

No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.

Paypal User Agreement, section 8.1.a:

For Purchase Payments, the recipient of the payment will always pay the Fee.

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Fee ... anguage=en

Very similar to any other credit-card-type handling agreement.

[curtiswyant]

Yeah, it annoys me and I avoid buying from sellers that impose the 3% Paypal fee. The sellers should pay for the convenience. It's not like they have to wait a week for a money order. It's just another way for them to think they're getting more money for their crap.

[valverec]

I agree! I think it's dumb and cheesy when sellers do that. It's against eBay's ToS for sellers to do that, because it WAY over-complicates a transaction. For sellers, just build the paypal fee into your price. It makes way more sense to do it that way.

For that matter so does shipping. Whenever I sell things, I just bake both into my price. Nothing kills a deal faster than me coming back to a buyer and saying, by the way, that $75 thing you're buying is going to cost $25 to ship. I can't tell you how many times I've expressed interest in something, only to have the seller come back with a huge shipping price that kills it and wastes both of our time.

[drumsound]

its a similar model to sales tax in a retail establishment. When you go to the grocery store and have $100 worth of food, your bill isn't $100, it's $107.50 (locally anyway). The store gets its $100 and the city takes the $7.50. Its the price of doing business. You can inflate the price slightly so there is no end of transaction "sticker shock" but that really is no different than charging the fee, it just isn't separate.

AND on Paypal you can do it as a gift, or from your paypal balance and not deal with fees.

Shippping on big items can be both pricy and time consuming. I see no problem with paying for it when I buy and charging for it when I sell.

In the end we aren't talking about huge dollars for paypal fees and are really just arguing semantics.

[kslight]

its a similar model to sales tax in a retail establishment. When you go to the grocery store and have $100 worth of food, your bill isn't $100, it's $107.50 (locally anyway). The store gets its $100 and the city takes the $7.50. Its the price of doing business. You can inflate the price slightly so there is no end of transaction "sticker shock" but that really is no different than charging the fee, it just isn't separate.

AND on Paypal you can do it as a gift, or from your paypal balance and not deal with fees.

Shippping on big items can be both pricy and time consuming. I see no problem with paying for it when I buy and charging for it when I sell.

In the end we aren't talking about huge dollars for paypal fees and are really just arguing semantics.

Disagree, it is greatly not the same thing as taxes.

Businesses pay credit card processing fees, in addition to sales tax, when they sell their goods. It is usually seen as an advantage for a store to accept credit cards, customers spend more money, and some people don't carry cash at all. These credit card fees are not put off on the customer, the closest you may get to this is a "minimum charge amount," but that is uncommon and for the most part a very low barrier.

I'm mostly curious as to where this all started, why so many folks seem to think that I am willing to pay their Paypal fees. As a professional courtesy, treating B/S/T sellers with at least a few grades higher respect than the Craigslist sellers, I won't beat them up on price so much, I will usually accept what they are asking, or ignore it. Putting in a "seller pays fees" line lets me know that you are not in on the whole professional courtesy thing, and I will pass on your ad.

Lastly, this rant is not about shipping. I am happy to pay (fair) shipping fees. I understand bubbles and boxes and packing tape cost money, but I'm not going to pay an idiot tax either.

[digitaldrummer]

not sure what the big deal is. nobody is forcing anyone to pay paypal fees - on either side.

if you don't like a seller's policies, don't buy their shit.

f you don't like paypal, don't use it.

if you don't like paying fees on eBay - don't sell on eBay.

easy enough.

and by the way, if you haven't shipped anything lately you will likely be shocked by the prices. all shippers have raised prices steeply in the last 2 years or so. and if you add insurance (and you should if you care about an item) then its even more expensive. And then if you take it somewhere to have it boxed up - THAT is where the INSANE pricing comes from.

[vvv]

... idiot tax ....

There was some item last year, I don't know, a mic, mebbe, where it was listed at Buy Now for a low but fair price of about $50, and the shipping was listed at like $100.

Thinking the seller meant $10, I messaged him, and he responds, "No, I meant $100, I have my reasons."

His reason apparently was that he was a collector of the "idiot tax"!

[drumsound]

its a similar model to sales tax in a retail establishment. When you go to the grocery store and have $100 worth of food, your bill isn't $100, it's $107.50 (locally anyway). The store gets its $100 and the city takes the $7.50. Its the price of doing business. You can inflate the price slightly so there is no end of transaction "sticker shock" but that really is no different than charging the fee, it just isn't separate.

AND on Paypal you can do it as a gift, or from your paypal balance and not deal with fees.

Shippping on big items can be both pricy and time consuming. I see no problem with paying for it when I buy and charging for it when I sell.

In the end we aren't talking about huge dollars for paypal fees and are really just arguing semantics.

Disagree, it is greatly not the same thing as taxes.

Businesses pay credit card processing fees, in addition to sales tax, when they sell their goods. It is usually seen as an advantage for a store to accept credit cards, customers spend more money, and some people don't carry cash at all. These credit card fees are not put off on the customer, the closest you may get to this is a "minimum charge amount," but that is uncommon and for the most part a very low barrier.

I'm mostly curious as to where this all started, why so many folks seem to think that I am willing to pay their Paypal fees. As a professional courtesy, treating B/S/T sellers with at least a few grades higher respect than the Craigslist sellers, I won't beat them up on price so much, I will usually accept what they are asking, or ignore it. Putting in a "seller pays fees" line lets me know that you are not in on the whole professional courtesy thing, and I will pass on your ad.

Lastly, this rant is not about shipping. I am happy to pay (fair) shipping fees. I understand bubbles and boxes and packing tape cost money, but I'm not going to pay an idiot tax either.

Do you seriously think that big stores/corps aren't figuring in CC processing fees when they price items? They absolutely are. The cash customers are actually footing part of that fee, because they are not getting a cash discount.

What you are saying is that you don't like the seller to TELL YOU that they are charging fee. Because if the seller tacks on $5-10 in their minimum price, figuring in for PP/CC fees, without mentioning it, you will take their ad seriously, but if they straight up tell you they are, then you pass.

It's semantics. Buy what you want from who you want. Believe that you are or aren't paying the fees.

[kslight]

Do you seriously think that big stores/corps aren't figuring in CC processing fees when they price items? They absolutely are. The cash customers are actually footing part of that fee, because they are not getting a cash discount.

What you are saying is that you don't like the seller to TELL YOU that they are charging fee. Because if the seller tacks on $5-10 in their minimum price, figuring in for PP/CC fees, without mentioning it, you will take their ad seriously, but if they straight up tell you they are, then you pass.

It's semantics. Buy what you want from who you want. Believe that you are or aren't paying the fees.

No reason to treat me like an idiot because you don't agree with me.

While we are at it, I also realize that somewhere along the line I am paying for all kinds of "hidden fees" when buying from a business, the clerk off dicking off with their phone, the leaky roof, the lines on the parking lot? I get it.

My point has been made sufficiently clear.

[drumsound]

Do you seriously think that big stores/corps aren't figuring in CC processing fees when they price items? They absolutely are. The cash customers are actually footing part of that fee, because they are not getting a cash discount.

What you are saying is that you don't like the seller to TELL YOU that they are charging fee. Because if the seller tacks on $5-10 in their minimum price, figuring in for PP/CC fees, without mentioning it, you will take their ad seriously, but if they straight up tell you they are, then you pass.

It's semantics. Buy what you want from who you want. Believe that you are or aren't paying the fees.

No reason to treat me like an idiot because you don't agree with me.

While we are at it, I also realize that somewhere along the line I am paying for all kinds of "hidden fees" when buying from a business, the clerk off dicking off with their phone, the leaky roof, the lines on the parking lot? I get it.

My point has been made sufficiently clear.

I in no way and trying to imply that you are an idiot. I'm attempting to offer a point of view, and an intelligent discourse. You have made your point. And I believe mine has also been made.

[emrr]

I don't see these mentioned. Apologies for run-on sentences!

Sales psych 101. People pay $99.95 much faster than they pay $100. You sell an item that you have really low margin on, and need to actually gross as close to $99.95 as you can, but you can't do as well if you pay fees, and fewer people will bite at $103 so your chances of getting a sale are lower at that price point. As well, over time a dealer gives up that 3% of their take when they stick with $99.95, and it adds up to a lot of money out of the sellers pocket, and into ebay/paypals pocket. This doesn't hurt the occasional seller much, or the high volume retailer with wholesale price advantage, but can impact the small dealer running on very tight margins.

Now, when you bid $99.95 faster than $103, you still pay the same shipping on them both, and you really don't weight the consideration of shipping cost the same as you do the measly under-$100/over-$100 part.

Sellers are also pissed off over ebay taking a portion of the shipping fee; sellers are paying for some of the shipping out of their own pockets, if they are pricing honestly in the first place.

Ebay doesn't want to maintain their legacy of occasional sellers dumping stuff they don't need, they want full time retail dealers. They believe Amazon is their competitor. I'm not making that bit up, I've heard it stated in Etailer meetings from ebay talking heads. Many of the fee and policy moves reflect this clearly, and several years ago auction format sales had shrunk to less than 10% of their total business. Man, I swear ebay fees 15 years ago were well under 5%, and paypal didn't exist to take a cut. A seller just can't add that 5-7% to the top end in a 'competitive' marketplace, they have to eat it.

All in all it comes down to knowing what you are buying, at what cost, and making an informed decision about what you want to pay in total. If buyer pays fees, and it's clearly stated, I don't know what the grumble is really about. For instance it's much clearer than buying overseas and having any idea whether you'll get hit with import duties. Nothing like paying $600 for something from overseas, and getting an unexpected $200 import duty bill; it happens!

OF course I'm addressing theoreticals around the 'why's' of 'buyer pays fees' outside of ebay, you can't do it at ebay and play by the rules.