David Kucinich for President

[helstab]

well of course kucinich isnt going to get the nomination. We live in the United states of America. Everywhere were I go.. all i see is assholes. But in the primarys and in forums like this I can dream.

thank you.

[Rec Head]

[quote="akaromeo1"][quote]dont hate.[/quote]

1- guaranteed health care for all will kill the innovations in health care that we enjoy now as a result of the profit incentive.
- r[/quote]

Sorry if this quote has been questioned already. I just saw it and responded. I'm wondering what innovations you are talking about? Is it the innovation were you go to the ER for a cough because you can't afford a DR? If you do I hope you at least called 911 for an ambulance to get a ride there and add some credit to the seriousness of your claim. Look I work for as a healthcare provider and have a nice benefit package and still think this system sucks.

[ottokbre]

not voting is one step closer to a policital harmonium

[ottokbre]

I'm in the same camp as formzero.

www.lp.org/quiz

silly test

[rtopia]

You may own a radio station, but you do not own the airwaves. The govt. licenses a frequency to a radio station--much like driving, broadcasting is a privilege, not a right.

So what was your point?

That was my point.
Why should the government control the radio spectrum?
And where did this idea of driving and broadcasting being a privledge come from?
Why shouldn't I be able to buy a car and/or a transmitter and just do my thing as long as I don't hurt anyone in the process?

I'm also trying to figure out the thing about controlling which candidates you can have on the air. Do you ever listen to right wing talk radio? Do you hear hordes of democratic candidates on Limbaugh or Hannity or Boortz? You might hear one or two, but there's no "equal time" rule governing these shows.

I was referring to that right wing demagog Howard Stern who cancelled an interview with a political candidate for fear of being fined without legal recourse by violating equal time laws. He was later given the green light by the FCC when they informed him he was considered a "news show".

You're absolutely right about Limbaugh and the others and I don't know how they're being exempted. Maybe they're considered news too.

Do you really think UPS wants to deliver the mail? Further, do you think they could do it for less than 40 cents a letter? A "first class" letter delivered by UPS is usually going via next day air & runs 10+ bucks a pop. I don't really know that it's right for the USPS to collect its measly cut, but you're making a mountain out of a molehill on this one.

I was referring to FedEX but they both want to get into the first class mail biz.
They both have business plans - ready to go - that will allow them to do it for less than $.40 a pop, but the government sanctioned monopoly prevents them from using it.

You know, all your arguments sound eerily familiar--from my days of listening to talk radio on a regular basis. Why not try to get your information from a wider variety of sources--or maybe you could even try thinking for yourself for a change.

You know, it was getting information from a wide variety of sources and experiencing the heavy hand of regulation first hand that brought me to this worldview in the first place. I'm self employed and I can't make one decision without considering whether or not I'll be exposed to anything that will result in me paying penalties when it comes time for me to do that other thing to bring me in compliance with the law - paying taxes.

If I made it any more evident that I - was - thinking for myself you'd probably deepen your personal attack at me by saying that I was selfish (like there was something wrong with that to begin with).

- r[/quote]

[rtopia]

I'm wondering what innovations you are talking about? Is it the innovation were you go to the ER for a cough because you can't afford a DR?

No, I was referring to the innovations that people from around the world come to the US for because they're not available in countries where there is no financial incentive for technological advancement

Prior to the notion that everyone "deserved" to have their medical care paid for by someone else, health care didn't cost as much and - in extreme cases - there were alternatives for compensating Dr's for their services. As a matter of fact, in the cases where my insurance didn't cover certain procedures, I was always able to work out payment plans.

I think the first mistake being made here is referring to our health care system as "a system". If we think of it as "a system" (as a opposed to a service) it does suck. The reality is health care is a service - and service deserves payment.

Everytime I go the DMV or the courthouse, I'm reminded of how much I don't want these people to be the ones running the hospitals and doctors offices.

- r

[durasoundrecordingco]

While Canada may be privatizing more specialized care (and you can still get the care, it'll just take longer), the US is still the last truly industrialized nation not providing health care to its citizens.

That sucks.

I'm glad that you have been able to work out payment plans "in the cases where my insurance didn't cover certain procedures", but what about those who don't have insurance? What about small business owners who don't afford their employees insurance. What are those employees to do?

Right. My knee surgery cost me $3,400 10 years ago. That took a while to get paid off, and that was TEN YEARS AGO. What does that cost now?

I have to spend quite a few bucks a month for medication. Too much. I'm not asking for a hand out, just a little freakin' help while Bristol-Meyers-Squibb is recording record profits...like another record each year!

I guess I should just vote for Bush and be happy with my insurance and health care "service".

[rtopia]

While Canada may be privatizing more specialized care (and you can still get the care, it'll just take longer), the US is still the last truly industrialized nation not providing health care to its citizens.

That sucks.

What is the significance of that and why does that suck?

but what about those who don't have insurance? What about small business owners who don't afford their employees insurance. What are those employees to do?

How about saving money for these kinds of emergencies?
Why can't your employer just be responsible for paying you for the work you do?

Would you drive without the insurance necessary to cover damage you did to someone elses property? Why wouldn't you care even more for yourself?

Right. My knee surgery cost me $3,400 10 years ago. That took a while to get paid off, and that was TEN YEARS AGO. What does that cost now?

Probably more.
Cars cost more than 10 years ago.
Houses cost more...
We're paying more taxes...

I have to spend quite a few bucks a month for medication. Too much. I'm not asking for a hand out, just a little freakin' help while Bristol-Meyers-Squibb is recording record profits...like another record each year!

How much money should a pharmaceutical company be allowed to make?
Wouldn't you be in worse shape if the meds weren't available to begin with?

Making record profits is what keeps them around to develop the meds someone else will need as much as you do.

Do you work for free?

I guess I should just vote for Bush and be happy with my insurance and health care "service"

You don't have to be happy with anything.
Some would argue that wanting a better situation is good motivation to doing what it takes to get one.

And what does the president have to do with your health insurance?
Did he enroll you?
Is he paying your premiums?

or were you just implying that I'm some kind of right wing automaton as winky did in his post?

- r

[durasoundrecordingco]

Unless you are arguing for the sake of argument and open debate, then yes you do come off a bit to the right. Whatever, that doesn't bother me, I just feel that your views are a bit misguided and not really in line with the mood of the general public. You are entitled to that in this country, for now, and that's what I do like about the US.

I'm done with political debate here. I have other forums for that.

[rtopia]

Unless you are arguing for the sake of argument and open debate, then yes you do come off a bit to the right.

Only if your mind is as closed as yours seems to be.

While people that define themselves on the right of the left/right political scale favor "moderate" personal responsibility on economic issues, they also favor legislation to regulate social issues - which I do not.

I just feel that your views are a bit misguided and not really in line with the mood of the general public.

So you're saying that I should realign myself to what the general public wants regardless of whether or not what the public wants is a bad idea?

You are entitled to that in this country, for now, and that's what I do like about the US.

"for now" is right.

The last big plan for socialized medicine in the US I saw, would make it a crime to pay cash for treatment. If I would need the governments permission to have any procedures performed.

I'm done with political debate here.

I didn't realize we were debating.

All you did was quote the cost of your knee surgery, complain about the cost of your medication, imply that the president had something to do with whether or not you should be satisfied with your health coverage and tell me I was misguided for not wanting to be like everyone else.

But then again...

This entire thread is about some utopian dream of a electing a collectivist president. I guess I asked for it.

- r

[helstab]

This is getting annoying. This post is for Dennis support.

{"This is getting annoying."} You mean by you getting annoying that this isnt g2$T#$ GUN#)$^GB*)#%^B%HW$GFDGJDFG($.

Seriously. Please don't bring the negativity into this board.

"Seriously. Please don't bring the negativity into this board." I did't realize I was being negative, I was just saying that fdsgs$@^%Y&#$(ER*YG$^#@

BLAHGFDG.

[aurelialuz]

How about saving money for these kinds of emergencies?

how do you save money if you can barely pay your rent?

alex

[trashy]

Yeah, this is getting REALLY freaking annoying...

I didn't realize we were debating.

Debate (vb.) 1. to discuss a question by considering opposing arguments

How could we not be debating? Someone says something, and then you take that and dissect it, and then they return the volley by pointing out flaws in your arguments. What is that called if it is not debating?

This entire thread is about some utopian dream of a electing a collectivist president. I guess I asked for it.

I thought part of this thread was about the utopian dream of a nearly government-less society. Maybe I missed your point...

[Monkeyfist]

What is that called if it is not debating?



It's commonly referred to as arguing, but could be construed as discussing if done in a Japanese manner.

[rtopia]

Debate (vb.) 1. to discuss a question by considering opposing arguments

How could we not be debating? Someone says something, and then you take that and dissect it, and then they return the volley by pointing out flaws in your arguments. What is that called if it is not debating?

What you just defined - is - debating.
I was referring to durasound who had nothing to offer but: "my meds cost too much and my health coverage sucks"

I thought part of this thread was about the utopian dream of a nearly government-less society. Maybe I missed your point...

No - I think you got it
Being nearly government-less as an alternative to the tried and failed collectivist ideas of Dennis Kucinich was my point.

Like I said - I asked for it.
Left wing ideologues are just as closed minded as the Right wing ideologues.

- r
[/quote]