Will mix for free.

[Rigsby]

You want some ketchup for that chip brian? You may also need some help eating that. Someone call guiness book of records.

Jesus.

[Brian]

Oh man - totally different world you are in?my internships were ok?nothing like that style of stuff with the 25 interns?I did want to try Battery in Chicago. Is that the place? Huge?.but the music I got into was much more independent so I went that route?the bands I record take offense to being 'groomed'?

Nah, it was in NYC, Big Apple, owned by audio engineering instructors, (damn good ones too), John Lennon owned it before that. BIG recording room. There used to be this HYPE thing about "selling out' same as being "groomed", it meant you were gonna break big and everyone was gonna say you "sold your soul" yada yada yada. It was all BS, but, look how it backfired.
Really, there's nothing wrong with it, it is a career, job, whatever, we know, it means we get payed for a job well done, but, only if.
There are standards, for mixes, for mastering, for songwriting, recording. In the early days of your career you sort of feel your way around them, hopefully someone will tell you what they are, and you get smoother in their operation 'til you get it as "first response" instead of "working them" or second nature.
You can tell when you hear an engineer who only knows ProTool, it makes a hollow sound, but, when you hear a real engineer using ProTool, it is a different noise, they make it serve them, in a non-robotic sounding fashion. There are distinct sounds on different continents too, Spain is just getting away from that "tizzy" sound, England has always been at the front of the pack for sound quality, they pay more attention to where things are in space and time in a mix and work their midrange much more musically than anyone else, American engineers mix everything up front, like everyone is playing on a line on the front of the stage the tizziness is intermittant and the "ProTool Sound" is dominant here. Dead clean cuts, razor sharp top end, and everything right up front, it sucks and shows a lack of thought process, and no mic technique, no demensionality at all. BORING!
I hope it changes, The Salsa guys have it down here, lotsa live stuff, real instruments, mics, plasma, energy in a session, there used to be a band called Seis Du Solar, man, did they have that spooky demensionality going on! Some blues records still have too, Alvin Youngblood Hart, spooky and 3D. Ya don't need Q-Sound to get it, ya need ability. I'd like to see that come back and real A&R guys that aren't MBA flops. Then we'll see the money come back, when the "ART" returns.


It certainly is a problem - the internship thing - and now the free thing. maybe not a problem but definitely a 'situation.' It's hard and recording is like the hoola hoop right now so the few good spots there are are fewer still.

Eh?hard times?but worth it.

Mike

[Brian]

You want some ketchup for that chip brian? You may also need some help eating that. Someone call guiness book of records.

Jesus.

My chip is bigger than yours. Feeds a family of five.
It'll take motor oil to get that one down, it keeps coming back up, ooh, ooh ooh here it comes agaighaghaghagh! Napkin, please.
Don't pretend you don't know.
I said I was old and mean.
Hey, try this, you'll be amazed, listen to some 70's recordings of Salsa, old Santana, then listen to some new Salsa, then try some Bar-Kays, then some 'Britney" (or pop Diva of your choice), then some, Proclaimers (British), then some Clapton, or some SKA, or some Punk. You'll get the point. An anomoly isn't a style.
There is a left to right in a mix, but, there is also a back to front. American recordings have one dimension, a flat plane.
As a guy being payed to sit behind a desk and mix that kind of dreck I'm bored with it. Here's an idea 1 mic in a room and position the players, you'll get dimension, then ooh ooh, stereo, 2 mics in a room & position the players, then you really get dimension, then mix Britney all up front and it sounds like she's in your head, Britney Spears is in your head and you can't get her out. She DOES have talent. They'll change the style as she gets older. I'm not THAT worried about it. Just food for thought,,,to yak on.

[Brian]

Don't get me wrong, and don't read any sarcasm into it, I've heard some really amazing stuff from this site, and I've heard some absolute SHITE too. Some guys are correcting industry mistakes fromthis very forum right now. just for a laugh I went to one sight where he has 4 or five acts with sound file and ONE guitar sound on all of them, in the left channell. the tracks aren't that bad but you'll get a chuckle.

[syrupcore]

I think the idea is great. I try a similar model. I'm not quite as philanthropic though. I record you for 'free' but you have to contribute something to the studio so the next person who records here can use it.

why are so many folks so threatened by this fella? he's not gonna mess up your business and he going to help a lot of musicians out. Is a soup kitchen some how threatening denny's? People who pick up trash on the street threatening street cleaners? I suppose LP-FM is screwing Clear Channel. Public Access TV proly orta be closed cause Fox is loosing viewers. I mean, demanding that he charge because everyone else is charging sounds more socialist to me than him not charging. I reckon a good few of the people upset here shop at walmart and buy chinese LDCs.

Dont we record music because of the music? Yeah, everyone has to generate income to eat but do we have some god given right to do it as engineers? I mean, damn - there's always work at the post office. if you're one of the VERY few humans on the planet who makes a living doing something you love, be grateful for however long you get to do it. this fella's not threatening your family. Is it his fault that you dont have enough business? I assure you he's not threatening Electrical Audio. many of you will continue to do fine for the same reason: you do good work and your clients appreciate it.

remember back in the day, when you used to practice your guitar in your bedroom and dream of stardom... dontchu think you would of been happy to find out about this guy? I know I woulda.

[Brian]

Is a soup kitchen turning away people who can afford the lunch but want the free ride?
NOBODY picks up as much trash on a street as a street cleaner.
LP-FM and pub access tv don't cater to the same audience as fox or clear channel do they. No water in your argument.
You need to look up socialism in the dictionary, the, look up capitolism and compare.
I don't knock you for wearing a particular brand of shirt why do you want to knock people who use certain gear. Lemme look in YOUR mic case buddy, anything hot, fromn a pawn shop or worse, the dreaded chinese LDC, I got big news bozo, all the diaphragms are made there, look up SE Electronics and a plethora of others.
Are you trying to make the point that this guy ain't got money? cuz yer wrong.
Why don't YOU go work for FREE at the POST OFFICE. I like your idea there you and the other guy. I don't buy your altruistic blabber.
Not threatening business? Go to work at a car dealership and sell cars for a week or computers. When you figure out what "lo-balling" does to your job don't come crying to me.
You are just justifying your own inability to have enuff self worth to charge. I like your scheme better than his though. The "Barter" system.
Look, you guys are just scared to charge because you think it will cease your art.
In contrast, it will fund your art and the sooner you start, the sooner you will grow as a human being, an entepreneur, and a contributor to the business community at large and finally to your own well being (which should come first).
If you just can't do it and keep inventing these bullshit arguments why we should all be working for free cuz "you say so", or, "because it's art and we love to do it, so we should feel lucky to have clients at all", well, number 1 F.U. and number 2 you got mental probs and you're unwilling to transcend your fear for a "real" future of opening possibilities. That and you're an industry pawn, yeah, that's right, a pawn cuz that's just what labels who've been ripping off artists want, free studio time and bands who can get it. They already get bands for 1/10th the price of 10 years ago yet the "good screwing" you get from the labels hasn't changed one line. The labels get the bands for free and now you and your pals are gonna let them gwet time for free.
You are full of BS.
PS: I have more business than I can get to and I send it to studios who charge because I can rely on them and for the money you get a certain degree of reciprocity and guarantee of quality which freebies can't be counted on for.
Now I have a headache.

[syrupcore]

Is a soup kitchen turning away people who can afford the lunch but want the free ride?
NOBODY picks up as much trash on a street as a street cleaner.
LP-FM and pub access tv don't cater to the same audience as fox or clear channel do they. No water in your argument.

My examples were a little extreme. So is the reaction to his idea, particulary yours. are you suggesting that I stop picking up trash on the street cause the street cleaner does so much more than I do? Public access TV producers and broadcast/cable TV producers are after the same people: TV watchers. One is trying to tell you something, the other is trying to sell you something but you can only watch one channel at a time so they are very much in competition.

I don't knock you for wearing a particular brand of shirt why do you want to knock people who use certain gear.

That wasn't my intention. I was, in a less than creative/articulate way, trying to point out the inbalance of demanding that people support commercial studios but not microphone manufacturers. If you feel so strongly about undercutting, I hope you dont shop at Musicians Friend or Walmart.

I got big news bozo,

your mama.

Why don't YOU go work for FREE at the POST OFFICE.

you're dumb. the point of working at the post office is that you get paid.

Not threatening business? Go to work at a car dealership and sell cars for a week or computers. When you figure out what "lo-balling" does to your job don't come crying to me.

see wal*mart. when you come to hawaii, I'm not going to put you up. you'll need to go stay in an hotel, and not some cheap undercutting one. It's simply not right to deny hotel owners your business. of course, you realize, if you stayed here at my place, you'll need to wash your own towels, I dont smile in the morning and I dont have a TV. you get what you pay for.

Look, you guys are just scared to charge because you think it will cease your art. In contrast, it will fund your art and the sooner you start, the sooner you will grow as a human being, an entepreneur, and a contributor to the business community at large and finally to your own well being (which should come first).

You might be right. I'll look into myself. of course, we've never met so you should proly shut it. who says I aspire to be an entrepeneur or that I'd like to contribute to the business community at large? maybe you do, and that's cool by me but keep your goals to yourself ok?

If you just can't do it and keep inventing these bullshit arguments why we should all be working for free cuz "you say so", or, "because it's art and we love to do it, so we should feel lucky to have clients at all",

first of all, dont quote people as saying things they didn't. It's weak. take a second and hit the quote button. look how many times I've done it for you. it's ridiculous but at least they're actual quotes. Second, I'm not AT ALL suggesting what you should do. charge your friggin face off. make a million bucks. wtf do I care? I think commercial studios rock. so there.

well, number 1 F.U. and number 2 you got mental probs and you're unwilling to transcend your fear for a "real" future of opening possibilities. That and you're an industry pawn, yeah, that's right, a pawn cuz that's just what labels who've been ripping off artists want, free studio time and bands who can get it. They already get bands for 1/10th the price of 10 years ago yet the "good screwing" you get from the labels hasn't changed one line. The labels get the bands for free and now you and your pals are gonna let them gwet time for free.

interesting. maybe true. luckily, this isn't an issue yet but I see how it could be in the future - especially that part about you wanting to fuck me and my mental problems. I record my friends and friends of friends and kids in the neighborhood. all self-released. if some one were going to make a bunch of money from my work, well, I dunno what I'd think.

I dont charge for lots of reasons. some are practical, some are idealistic, some are personal. I have no aspirations to open a commercial studio. I think most studio owners would suggest I have mental problems if I did. I love going to commercial studios but I dont want to run one. I dunno about the fella who started this thread but I expect most of the people I record understand they'll need to wash thier own towels.

why did I spend this much time replying? jeesh. I coulda setup a rate card by now.

will

[Brian]

The BAIT is too attractive,,,eegad I can't control myself I must respond,,,,,,,
1. Yes, you in particular should stop picking up trash on the street. My spies tell me that YOU are a particularly BAD ametuer trash picker upper. The street cleaner is simply "much better at it than you".

2. I bet that you couldn't pass your "demagraphic expertise' off as proffessional in the CNN or FOX networks demagraphic department with assumptions like yours, they'de fire you if you really believed and acted upon such an over simplistic concept "assumption" and they'de probly start examining your diploma if you had one for that very thing.
I have 450 stations on my cable 30 are music only (no video). Some have Salsa some have rock, they are competing for the same customer in a broad sense, however, their programming diversified because RESEARCH and CUSTOMER INPUT suggested that spanish people couldn't understand the English channels by and large DON"T listen to rock and would like a Spanish news channel and Spanish music channel, gameshow channel, and it doesn't stop at ethnicity. "Trekkies' aren't gonna watch AMC when there is Spike or SciFi channel. You get the point.

3. Only watch one channel at a time? Are you kidding? Have you never been to Graceland?

4. You better hope my spies don't catch you at "WallyWorld" or Guitar Center either or you'll be in BIG trouble, mister.

5. You talkin 'bout MY momma? Don't be talkin' 'bout MY momma!

6. So are you.
The point of working free at the post office was that the other postal workers will kick your ass
and
I'll get to make MONEY selling tickets when I put it on the internet that YOU will be fighting workers GOING POSTAL! yep, ya knew it was coming.
7. People get paid more in Hawaii, and locals don't pay 'tourist" rates.
This explains why you think all TV stations are in it for the same customers.
8. While I have the money, let's see, your house with just you, or, a hotel with people supporting families some of which have musicians in them and new people to meet, I'm guessing the hotel serves breakfast, hmmmmm. Do you have beach access? Will you serve me Little fruity drinks with little umbrellas in them if I even think my glass is going to be empty?
I pick the hotel.
I bet your a better mixer than you think or let on to be.

9. Shut it? Did YOU pay money for that gear? Touchy!
OK, on the quote thing two points:
a) did you read this whole thread yet
b) did you visit the authors site yet and read that overblown and fony altruistic commie statement of purpose?

However, the button remark IS well placed.
It doesn't work on my computer.

Ouch! I think I just Charged my friggin face off!! aaaaaa!!!! Do I still rock? Don't just sit there reading, HELP ME FIND MY FACE, DAMMIT!!
No one is going to make a million just recording, If you're licky you might be able to feed your family.
Some people pay (and I laugh) up to $30k for an "education" in this field before opening up a business.

Anyway it's just a heads up for the future. Since as human "beings" we operate in three spaces of temporality (past present and future) our actions, no matter how sight or unintentional, affect all others.
YEs, If you open a studio you do,(have mental problems) it should be obvious, by this ones replies. It is the same for all businesses.
Aaaaaaneeeeeeewaaay, you should get that rate card going, you and this other guy are exactly what we need in the commercial studio biz! That's right and I'll tell you another little secret, all good studio owners once felt and operated just like you including,,,,Me..
Don't think so, well, how do you explain how I put up with the last no-timing-dement drummer I just recorded whole 2 song project for a measely $100? To help a friend (with management, shit, now I feel guilty).
I did and everyone else did it too and one thing I can tell you is, it was a total waste of time (mine) given the level of expertise of the "other players". Shorten this whole thing up and I'm saying don't waste yours (time) it is all you have, when you go to that "great take-up reel in the sky", your gear stays here.
Yep there are some jackasses who bought the "open a studio" video at the biz-expo and are straight up fuckin up the works. Some buy gear and don't know what they're doin and don't have any need to do it. Some people , like yourself, and the author of this thread, are internally driven, it is up to elder engineers to guide you and point out things you'll need to know. the other guys can go suck-out-a-blood-clot. Someone like you and some of the rest of us could help put the "worth" back into the 'art", after all, what people suffer to bring this art together and to light wasn't at all free.
YOU ROCK!![/quote]

[Brian]

Short version:
Anyone who would even think of recording for free has the right inspiration of the art and so totally rocks that "they" should be the ones charging for time, and, anyone who never concieved of that shouldn't be in this business. just so you know where I'm coming from.

Our business at the top has been killed by greedy people who don't care if musician's honed their craft and make Protools editing of shite drummers and out of pitch musicians (gee you'de think pitch would be the first thing they'de learn) routine at the highest levels of the business. Trickling down, now it's time for grass roots efforts.