Assisting

[soundguy]

Is it really a good idea to perpetuate this "never contradict the engineer" business?

well, perhaps not, but it is a really really good idea to not have a conflict "above the line" in front of someone who is trying hard to ignore technical shit so they can focus and be creative on writing a song or performing a song or rehearsing a scenne or shooting a scene, whatever. Most people that go into a recording studio are putting a crazy amount of trust into the engineer they hired, the last thing they need during the session is to second guess the decision they made with their engineer because a second assistant doesnt agree with the mic pre the engineer wants patched or goes against something they learned in recording school that you should never do. There should be room for everyone to express themselves but the chain of command exists for a reason. If you think an engineer is a total fucking idiot, it serves you much better to suck it up annd just do your job well and then never work for the idiot engineer ever again after that. In that case you leave the session and everyone is gonna think you did a great job. There are few scenarios where a client is gonna think the arguing assistant is right even if you are %100 right and the engineer you have a conflict with is %100 wrong. In the clients eyes, most of the time, the second is just some guy the guy they hired (the first engineer) hired and dont want to know your name let alone your ideas, just plug in the patch cable... Most people dont realize how often a great second completely saves the first engineers ass and makes him look totally awesome. There are professional seconds out there for just that reason, they are awesome. First engineer aint ever calling back the guy that gave him shit the whole session or second guessed all of his decisions or any of that, its just not in the job description most of the time until you develop some kind of relationship and are part of a mixer's crew. Thats my impression of the politics at least.

dave

[cgarges]

I just went through this with a new assistant to the engineer on a project I played on. The assistant, who was hired by the studio and not the engineer and didn't know any of us, started implying that he was going to blow us all away with some keyboard parts he had in his head for this stuff. This was on the first day! This guy had NO IDEA that the band actually had a keyboard player who was out in LA at the time and his parts were going to be added later. He didn't know this because he didn't bother to ask or care enough about anything other than his own agenda to do so. We chose this particular engineer because we like his production values and wanted him to be a part of the team. We didn't choose this assistant for any reason at all. In fact, we didn't even know there would be an assistant there. And let me tell you, it was not helpful for him to walk out into the studio and start playing the piano while I was trying to tune my drums.

This is coming from a client point of view.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[joelpatterson]

Here's a stupid question, Why in God's name would anyone ever under any circumstances hire an assistant who wasn't cool and reliable and trustworthy?

It sounds like the engineer on his way to work stopped at the streetcorner where there's a crowd of migrant workers, he scans for a face that isn't too scarred by knife-fights and says, "Okay, you!"

To plug in patch cables? Don't you know how to plug in a patch cable?

[soundguy]

Here's a stupid question, Why in God's name would anyone ever under any circumstances hire an assistant who wasn't cool and reliable and trustworthy?

when things get so busy nobody good is available. when the five guys you normally use are book for seven months out on jobs. when you get called for a job 5 hours before they want you there and you could only find not the best guy who was available with such short notice. When you get called for a job out of town and they wont let you bring your normal assistant with you and you have to hire someone local and dont know anyone and trusted the wrong reccomendation. Lots of reasons.

dave

[joelpatterson]

Lots of reasons.

dave

I see your point.

So I should feel lucky that I get to control everything I do. Even tho, I mean, it's kinda popsicle sticks and glue compared to "real studio" stuff.

[andyg666]

Is it really a good idea to perpetuate this "never contradict the engineer" business? Maybe I just have a problem with hierarchy in general, but I would never want to record in a studio where everyone was not free to express themselves (politely and/or humorously) whenever and on whatever subjects they want.

B

i think i was the first one who chimed in on that general vibe. and that's not really what i meant. never contradict the engineer in front of the client. and yes, it is a good idea to perpetuate that "business," in my opinion. This doesn't mean you shouldn't say to the engineer "hey, track 14 isn't armed," or "you've got the overheads muted" or "i hear some 60 cycle hum somewhere" in earshot of the client. it means that you shouldn't answer session-related questions that the client asks of the engineer unless she asks for your opinion. it means that you shouldn't say thinkgs like "the bass is way too loud!" or "i could do that quicker." and the very reason one should not say things like that is exactly what you said: politeness. and respect. even if you do know how to do it better than the engineer, it's her gig, not yours, so let her do it the way she wants to and don't meddle. some day it will be your gig...

[jmiller]

As far as not contradicting the engineer or offering unsolicited opinions, to me it's not a matter of restraint as much as it is a matter of whether it's my business or not. If the engineer asks me to put mic X up and patch it in to preamp Z, that is his choice and whether I would make that choice personally doesn't even enter into the equasion as far as I'm concerned. If an assistant thinks their unsolicited opinion is of any concern to the people involved in the session, IMO they aren't ready to be an assistant. It doesn't matter if you think you know a better vocal chain, etc. Unless you were specifically asked, it is totally irrelevant.

Of course that is totally different than showing an engineer where the talkback button is on the console, etc. If i'm asked to make a patch that sounds funny or might not work, I repeat the instructions I was given as i'm doing it. Sometimes the engineer meant something else and realizes while I'm repeating it, and corrects it. If they don't, it's rarely a bigger deal than them saying to me, "okay, lets not do that then." Sometimes if an engineer doesn't know the room or board I show them things that might make their lives easier, but generally only when their client isn't around and only when they aren't busy. I don't seem to work with too many insecure hypersensitive maniacs that some people complain about, so maybe life is just better for me. I really think it's not as much about what you say or don't say as much as it is about your attitude. If your attitude is that your job is to serve the best interest of your client, restraining from offering your opinion won't even be an issue.

[digital eagle audio]

I just went through this with a new assistant to the engineer on a project I played on. The assistant, who was hired by the studio and not the engineer and didn't know any of us, started implying that he was going to blow us all away with some keyboard parts he had in his head for this stuff. This was on the first day! This guy had NO IDEA that the band actually had a keyboard player who was out in LA at the time and his parts were going to be added later. He didn't know this because he didn't bother to ask or care enough about anything other than his own agenda to do so. We chose this particular engineer because we like his production values and wanted him to be a part of the team. We didn't choose this assistant for any reason at all. In fact, we didn't even know there would be an assistant there. And let me tell you, it was not helpful for him to walk out into the studio and start playing the piano while I was trying to tune my drums.

This is coming from a client point of view.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

yowzas!

[digital eagle audio]

the very reason one should not say things like that is exactly what you said: politeness. and respect. even if you do know how to do it better than the engineer, it's her gig, not yours, so let her do it the way she wants to and don't meddle. some day it will be your gig...

no shit, man - one of the engineers was having me work on something while he took care of something else, and so i'm sitting there with the producer and the client, and one of the newer interns wanders on in and sits like right the fuck behind me. he then procedes to do that antsy little intern thing where they don't actually say anything but they try desperately to make it clear that they know what to do, too. eventually he got bored of that and started making comments and suggestions outright, and even kept trying to engage the client in chit chat (i needed the client's attention for obvious reasons). now, this was superbly shitty for me, since i am technically still an intern. it's one thing to do that to an engineer (who is at least secure in their role) but to do that to a fellow intern finally getting his big chance to show what he can do on a real project? and it's not like i could tell him to shut up. and i certainly wasn't going to go narc him out or anything. it was like having a gnat hovering over my head.

[soundguy]

do people in other industries have this same kind of rock star envy syndrome? Ive never seen a guy dump the dirt out of the dump truck and then proceed to get into a debate with the surveyors about how the job should REALLY be done...

dave

[firgela]

And excuse me for making a fucking JOKE!!!!!!!! Good lord, what is the TOMB world coming to?

I appreciate your humor. Guess there's not much insight in that as far as assisting goes, um. I enjoyed reading everyone's posts, Happy Thanksgiving.

ps- kiss my ass and get me a cup of coffee, some fake fingernails, a gallon of mayo and a lawn chair.