Orban 414a compressor ... ripoff?

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

Post Reply
sthslvrcnfsn
steve albini likes it
Posts: 364
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 2:58 pm

Orban 414a compressor ... ripoff?

Post by sthslvrcnfsn » Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:36 pm

I've used one of these before on several occasions, and I really like it - that isn't my concern. The $400 price tag is. It seems like a pretty good price for two channels of compression that I know I like, but there's just not much information on the web about them, and I can't figure out how much the one I used cost.

It is in perfect working order (guaranteed by the store, this is NOT eBay), and the warranty this shop provides is pretty awesome. Also I'll be buying a DBX 118 from these guys - I'm pretty psyched to get some decent compression!

Any input would be great. Thanks. And no, I won't tell you where it is! :twisted:
jim!

User avatar
Russian Recording
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 752
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 2:28 pm
Location: Bloomington, IN
Contact:

Post by Russian Recording » Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:23 pm

This is a good compresssor. It is very different in how it works, so be sure to read the manual or get ahold of one. It's designed so that the threshold is adjusted automatically as you adjust the ratio so that it is always compressing the same amount of dB regardless of your ratio setting. Weird. It also has a slope shape selection (linear or logarythmic) for the release which is a pretty cool feature. The gate is pretty useless.

400 is a good deal although I believe I got mine for about 300.

regards,
mike

sthslvrcnfsn
steve albini likes it
Posts: 364
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 2:58 pm

Post by sthslvrcnfsn » Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:05 am

Mike-

I had two long walks tonight (to and from the bar, 20 minutes each way), and I thought about what you said in respect to the way the Orban comps work. I have to say that sober and a handful of beers - I don't undertand the way these comps work.....

So at any given input dB the Orban box applies the same amount of compression. For example, at low level AND at high level there is a given amount of compression applied. The box sees what level is coming in, subracts a number (based on the ratio), and applies compression to the signal above a certain number of dB. In a theoretical sense, this is the same as pushing the fader down - sort of. Think about it for 20 minutes sober like I did. Essentially you could push the fader up or down to get the same result as fucking with the knobs on the Orban. I fail to see [on paper; theoretically] how this Box could make one bit of difference.

What makes more sense is that the ratio is variable from where you set the threshold. I don't know much about variable-mu comps, but seeing as a variable ratio is the only thing left up in the air, I would asume that a variable ratio IS variable-mu. Please correct me if I'm wrong, seriously.

If the ratio is variable, it's as if [above the threshold] the amount of compression applied is logarithmic as aposed to linear. And of course, having a decent physics and algebra background, I've always understood that the ratio knob (x:y) represents a linear correlation between the signal coming in and the signal coming out of the box. I've seen a graphical representaion in Sound Forge's stock compresser.

I'm gonna own this thing come Monday.
jim!

User avatar
Russian Recording
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 752
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 2:28 pm
Location: Bloomington, IN
Contact:

Post by Russian Recording » Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:44 am

I think I may have confused you.

OK, Let's say you are using a typical compressor with threshold adjustment and ratio adjustment. You can set the ratio to 2:1 and then set the threshold so that the compressor is compressing 1-3 dB. You can then set the ratio to 20:1, and with that same threshold level the compressor will be compressing significantly more, right? And as a result the output will be lower. However, if you turn up the threshold, you can set it so that the compressor is only compressing 1-3 dB with a ratio of 20:1. So as a result, you will have the same output level as when you were compressing at 2:1 with lower threshold, but obvioulsy it will react much differently.

Basically what the Orban does is makes sure that with a given input level, it will always compress the same amount of dB regardless of what ratio you set, so that the output level stays constant. This is very strange. For example, let's say you are sending a snare into your Orban. You set the ratio to 4:1 and increase your input level until it is compressing 4 dB. On a typical compressor, if you were to increase the compression ratio, you would experience more compression (reduction), and as the amount of compression increases, your output level decreases. With the Orban, as you increase your ratio, the amount of reduction will stay the same, as will your ouput level! However you will notice that the compressor will react much differently at different ratios because what the comp is doing is automatically adjusting the threshold as you adjust the ratio to maintain an equivalent amount of compression. I think that the point of this design is to maitain a constant output level, so that if you need to adjust your ratio while recording (Orban gear was designed mainly for broadcast applications), there would not be a noticeable level change at the output.

RE: logarythmic vs linear release times.

The logarythmic/linear thingI was talking about had nothing to do with ratios. It has to do with the release times of the compressor. With a linear release slop, the compressor will revert back from compression with a linear slope (dB/time). With a logarythmic release slope, the compressor will revert back from compression with a logarythmic slope (dB/time) which means it will intially revert back faster, but then slow down near the tail end. It makes more sense when you see it drawn out graphically and then listen to it. It's a pretty nifty feature.

I hope I didn't confuse you even more.

mike

sthslvrcnfsn
steve albini likes it
Posts: 364
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 2:58 pm

Post by sthslvrcnfsn » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:05 am

Yep, I'm terribly confused. I think I have a better understanding now, but I'm not all the way there. Thanks for trying to explain to me. I think I need to read the technical info in the manual to understand it. At least I know I like what it does, having used one for a little while - and I like it.

I no longer feel like I'm getting ripped off. I was being a bit reactionary. I have a 3 day wait policy on all gear purchases - I have to sit and think about it for at least that time so that I don't make impulse buys, and then be fucked when it's time to pay the rent.

Thanks again Mike.

jim!

User avatar
I'm Painting Again
zen recordist
Posts: 7086
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 2:15 am
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Post by I'm Painting Again » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:39 pm

I have an Orban 418a..I'm not sure how it works really but it sounds cool as hell..transparent to really distorted in a neat way..sometimes if you hit the input too hard it craps out though and turns off..and the price i got if furr doesn't get any better than $0 unless maybe it was stuffed with money..it has a hi frequency mu control..I know this unit used a photo-opto circut that is made from unobtainium if it goes bye-bye its a "hard" bye-bye..some orban stuff is way cool..

User avatar
r0ck1r0ck2
re-cappin' neve
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 1:55 pm
Location: Milwaukee!!
Contact:

Post by r0ck1r0ck2 » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:43 pm

it will always compress the same amount of dB regardless of what ratio you set, so that the output level stays constant
these are primarly (sp) broadcast compressors no?
really seems like something for tv/radio..

User avatar
I'm Painting Again
zen recordist
Posts: 7086
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 2:15 am
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Post by I'm Painting Again » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:03 pm

r0ck1r0ck2 wrote:
it will always compress the same amount of dB regardless of what ratio you set, so that the output level stays constant
these are primarly (sp) broadcast compressors no?
really seems like something for tv/radio..
yes at least the one I have was intended for that app..It was sitting in the junkpile at work(TV station) so I took him in and gave him some love..

User avatar
I'm Painting Again
zen recordist
Posts: 7086
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 2:15 am
Location: New York, New York
Contact:

Post by I'm Painting Again » Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:05 pm

bob orban made his first piece for his friend who was doing radio stuff..

http://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/ops.htm

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 381 guests