Vocal/GTR Mic with less 145?

bplr · Post by **bplr** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:24 pm

So, in recording this one guy for two years, I've come to know what 145 Hz sounds like intimately. His voice and his nylon string both make plenty of this frequency. Mixing becomes a tedious process of trying very hard to take a little out of each track without over doing it, side chaining that frequency to a compressor, etc ...

Some of it is proximity effect, but I really like his voice right up on the mic sometimes because I like his voice recorded with some intimacy/closeness. I've been doing most of the vocals with either a Studio Projects C1 (with a low cut) or the Oktava MK012. He just bought a Shure Beta 87C for live performance, but I want to try it in the studio because it looks like it rolls off just before 145. Is there a particular mic you guys know of that handles that frequency well? I don't want to lose all the low end ... here's how he sounded on the last album after mixing and mastering.

http://bplr.com/bill_patton.html

I'm going to mod my Realistic PZMs and try them on vocals. I guess the guy who did Jeremy Enigk's "Return of the Frog Queen" recorded the vocals with one of them, but Jeremy had to put his hands on the wall and get right up on it. Might be an interesting thing to mix in.

Justin

KennyLusk · Post by **KennyLusk** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:54 am

I find my "Alice" by Scott Helmke to be very tight and acurate in the lower freq ranges with no hype and no mud. It's a surprisingly good mic for males vocals. I also like the AT3035 for the same reason. Although it doesn't have the output of the Alice it does have a very silky smooth response across the entire spectrum IMO.

Those are 2 mics I use that I find have no hype or mudiness in the 145kHz range.

mjau · Post by **mjau** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:59 am

I've found an AKG c414 can have a pretty steep cut that might do the trick.

John E. RokkeR · Post by **John E. RokkeR** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:40 am

the GT 55 & 57. (or an older alesis/GT am 51 & 52) they have that "intimate" sound to them. (same mic different capsules). and you can get them cheap at guitar center if you haggle with them a bit.

cgarges · Post by **cgarges** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:44 am

Be sure that the buildup of a certain frequency (and octaves above it) aren't a quality of your particular room. Yeah, the MC/MK012 does have a good bit of low-frequency boost from proximity effect when used close to a source, but having the same buildup in both mics in the same spot in the room sounds like an acoustic issue to me.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

kayagum · Post by **kayagum** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:14 am

Try an omni. Do you have an omni capsule for your Oktava?

Your PZM experiment should help with that. Remember to experiment with different soundboards- the bigger the soundboard (attaching the PZM onto it), the better the bass response. Try sheet plywood or a door.

bplr · Post by **bplr** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:49 pm

thanks for the info y'all.

ALICE - i lust for this mic. i heard some samples of this and was amazed.

ROOM FREQUENCIES - Yeah, it might be the room, but it's also the quietest room I've got. How would I dampen it? I don't know anything about sound treatment. I use an egg crate behind the mic just because I have it, but that's it.

Justin

bplr · Post by **bplr** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:51 pm

oh yeah

OMNI - I just picked up two more 012's on craigslist for 100$. one of them comes with omni and super. What does omni do for bass response?

Justin

KennyLusk · Post by **KennyLusk** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:36 pm

The 012's omni is a nice capsule with a smooth response on the bottom end and nothing hyped in the mids or high's IMO. I like to use it for background vocals. It works really well for AC guitars when you don't want any proximity effect. I like it alot aimed at the bridge on my OM16GT. I recommend a windscreen for vocals.

I love the 012 w/omni as a room mic (compressed) and on AC and Nylon string guitars with a decent amount of compression. Lower mids and high's are sweet with the omni.

evan · Post by **evan** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:04 pm

Just to clarify, even though Kenny mentioned it, all omni's have no proximity effect, hence using one for vocals might cut down on lower frequency buildup.

kayagum · Post by **kayagum** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:03 am

justingerardy wrote:thanks for the info y'all.

ALICE - i lust for this mic. i heard some samples of this and was amazed.

ROOM FREQUENCIES - Yeah, it might be the room, but it's also the quietest room I've got. How would I dampen it? I don't know anything about sound treatment. I use an egg crate behind the mic just because I have it, but that's it.

Justin

For room acoustics:

http://realtraps.com
http://johnlsayers.com

Ryan Silva · Post by **Ryan Silva** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:04 am

mjau wrote:I've found an AKG c414 can have a pretty steep cut that might do the trick.

Yep, works for most low male vocals, at least in my exp. It also sounds great off axis if sibilance is becomes a problem at those distances.

bplr · Post by **bplr** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:37 pm

Thanks for all the info. On further reflection, I'm pretty sure it's mostly standing waves in my tracking room. Partly, I think proximity has something to do with it, but I just had a similar problem at that frequency range doing voice overs with a totally different voice.

My room is weird and I don't really know what to do to it. Here's a pretty sorry drawing of it, but it's pretty close.

Carpeted, with 8' ceiling, about 9'x13' with that little notch on the top left _| of the drawing. To the right of the notch is shelving and a dresser |____| from ceiling to floor, then that little gap | | and then my soldering bench |__| with three rows of shelves and loads of electronics crap. The bottom left is a 4' high loft with storage underneath. Two 2x6 windows on the right side wall [ and [. Door in the bottom corner on the right /).

It's a pretty retarded room for tracking but I usually record with some egg crate against the right wall and the mic pointing back toward the bed. I'm tempted to find a way to break the loft down during sessions, like hinge it on the wall so i can just flip it up and cover the bottom with soundboard. I'd like to make some flip down window blockers that could double as panel bass traps and light blockers for those late afternoon sleep ins. Just have 'em flip up and latch on the ceiling.

Any strategic sound reinforcement ideas? I know it's a little difficult to do the math without exact measurements, but given what I've said about the room, how would you guys treat/record in there, knowing that there's a 145 buildup and some subtle early reflections.

Justin

KennyLusk · Post by **KennyLusk** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:15 am

Some might consider this poor advice but judging from the size of the room and the fact that it's carpeted I would recommend trying some plyboard panels on the floor under you and around you, remove the egg carton from behind the mic and don't treat the windows. Leave them reflective. In addition to this I would try an outboard gate for effect.

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Vocal/GTR Mic with less 145?

Vocal/GTR Mic with less 145?

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