Need some direction with some recording gear

[pureoldsound]

Hi everyone new to this forum.....I need some direction with some recording gear. I want to do some home recordings. I?ll be recording guitars (3), bass, synths (4) at home. Drums and voices I?ll probably will record at a studio. I used to have a Fostex MR-8, which became quite uninspiring after a while so I sold it a couple of years ago. By that time the M-box was very popular and new. I was told back then that the M-box recording program (I think it was pro-tools) gave the possibility to do some recordings at home then take that recording on a CD to a professional studio and open it up with the studio?s program for further editing, etc?.(don?t know how true is that statement)

Why I just don?t record everything at a studio, don?t have the time, and this is a one man show as I have to play everything. If I go to a studio I will have to pay a lot of hrs of recording time. I?ve recorded before at studios and it can add up pretty fast (especially when you are not that prepared)?..

I need about 4-6 tracks simultaneously (mainly for the synths since most of them will be operated by a sequencer of by me pressing a foot controller) and about 12-16 tracks total. Guitar parts will have to be recorded one by one as well as bass. I?ll have to record a drum track with my electric kit for tempo, so that needs to be played while I record everything.

What I have:

An extra Dell PC that will be used exclusively for recording. It has the factory sound card which might have to be upgraded (if needed). Get a sound card with 10 inputs for recording?????

mics Shure and Audix. I have mic stands and cables.

What I?ve been looking at:

Since I will be using my tube amps I need to mic them so I need a tube mic pre amp. I read a sticky thread on this forum and thought about the Studio Projects VTB1 Microphone Preamp.

I don?t know if I should go with recording software or get a digital mutli-track. Roland?s VS1880 or 1680, M-Box II, Lexicon Omega.
If I go with a program maybe get a controller like a Tascam FW1884 DAW Controller/Audio/MIDI Interface or an M-Audio Project mix.
I really don?t have a budget in mind. I want to research all the options first then get into the buying. So all your comments and advice will be greatly appreciated

[toothpastefordinner]

I think you should read a lot, lot, lot more about recording before you buy ANYTHING.

Like a LOT.

I don't know how a recorder itself could be "uninspiring". You're just recording songs you write, so what you record on pretty much has nothing to do with your musical inspiration.

I thought I'd throw this out there since I think most of the responses will tell you model numbers of things to buy and I think you are at the wrong point to be shelling out cash for equipment.

[nick_a]

ditto

[Radioaction]

Well I'm sure those aren't the answers you wanted to hear, but that doesn't mean you can't buy something to help your recording. I know what you're saying about those MR-8 units. You said you need at least 4-6 tracks of simultaneous recording, and with the MR-8 only giving you 2, I can see how that would be somewhat uninspiring... You sound like you know what you're talking about and you have some good gear, you just need a little more knowlege as far as recording equipment goes. My advice would be go to a Guitar Center and tell them exactly what you have, what you know, and what you want to do. They will point you in the right direction for what will suit your needs. Here is what I would do personally.

You mentioned the Mbox ($500) a few times. That is a great unit (I have one), but it only offers 2 tracks of simultaneous recording (in ProTools). The next step up from that if you're wanting to use Protools is the Digi002 rack ($1200) which gives you 8 channels of recording (and 32 tracks total). This also has 4 built in Preamps. It is a bit pricey, especially for someone who is not sure if they really need it. I would look into the Presonus FIREPOD ($600). It offers 8 channels of simultaneous recording with 8 built in mic preamps. It is NOT compatible with ProTools, but it comes with Cubase LE. I haven't used this software, but I've heard good stuff about it. It doesn't offer as much as Protools LE will (that is why the Digi002r cost so much more), but for home recording purposes, it should do the job.

The two units I mentioned connect to the computer via Firewire, so there is no need for a soundcard. Here's what I would recommend for that Dell computer of yours. At least 1 gig of Ram, and a separate harddrive (internal or external) just for audio. External harddrives are nice because if you ever wanted to take your recording to a commercial studio, you just unplug the harddrive and take it with you. If you do go with one of the 2 units above, I wouldn't worry about getting a fancy tube mic preamp just yet. I would stick to the Preamps that come built in.

Hope this helps. Don't let people tell you you aren't ready to buy stuff to record. Just talk with a salesman first. If you are making a mistake and buying something you obviously don't need, he will tell you (well, some salesmen wouldn't... guess you have to use your own judgement on that).

Scott

[JohnDavisNYC]

I would reccomend that you never go to Guitar Center, especially not to ask for advice from the salesmen... they are generally ignorant and only working for their commission.

john

[;ivlunsdystf]

Or at least talk to MANY salesmen at different stores so you can start weeding out the hype from the good information. Any sales guy (or gal) worth his (her) salt will talk for as long as you allow it. That doesn't mean they have anything to say. But if they stop talking, no sale. No sale, no salesperson.

If you are lucky you will run into one who asks you lots of detailed questions about your goals before recommending anything. This is rare.

Don't bring your checkbook/credit card/cash with you on your first visit.

[Radioaction]

I would reccomend that you never go to Guitar Center, especially not to ask for advice from the salesmen...

John,

I think you missed my point. What I meant was for pureoldsound to get out and talk to someone who knows what they are talking about, rather than just read about products on the internet. I did say use you own judgement on salesmen.

Scott

[kayagum]

Seriously, read every thread you can stand to read on this message board.

Better than any other resource on the Internet, or off of it.

That goes for anyone else who lurks or has joined this board

[pureoldsound]

Thanks for all the replies. Yes I do need to do some heavy reading on the subject and get more orientated. About the salesman, well about 4 years ago I had this same concern and asked a salesman and he recommended the digi with the pro-tools program. He also explained that I can use it to record my tracks and then take that to a studio for further editing, mastering, etc....

That sounded and still is what I want. I just want to record my guitar, bass, synths parts at home. Take that to a studio and finish my drums and vocals parts as well as the entire mixing etc. I do not plan to do the whole thing by myself. I know this is way over my head and my knowledge, and you don't learn about sound engineering over night. However I do need the right tools and compatible programs to take my tracks to a studio for further work. The digi002 plus the external hard drive seems like a possibility. I will look into that and read a bit more before committing to it.

[kayagum]

We're definitely not saying this stuff is over your head.

We're saying that, with some research, particularly with this board here, you can not only build a good "pre-production" setup, but you may surprise yourself by learning enough to do the studio work yourself.

This is especially true since a lot of people (basically anyone on this board who doesn't own a commercial studio) do their "one person recording" at some point.

Based on your initial post, I think you're worried too much about editing and mixing. Since you're recording yourself, I would focus more on the front end of the chain- namely the initial signal chain. Mics, preamps, DI (especially since you have synths to record- not completely necessary, but could make it way better), maybe A/D conversion into a PC. After that, pretty much any reputable DAW can handle it, and send it along to a Pro Tools friendly environment.



Good luck!

[pureoldsound]

We're definitely not saying this stuff is over your head.

We're saying that, with some research, particularly with this board here, you can not only build a good "pre-production" setup, but you may surprise yourself by learning enough to do the studio work yourself.

This is especially true since a lot of people (basically anyone on this board who doesn't own a commercial studio) do their "one person recording" at some point.

Based on your initial post, I think you're worried too much about editing and mixing. Since you're recording yourself, I would focus more on the front end of the chain- namely the initial signal chain. Mics, preamps, DI (especially since you have synths to record- not completely necessary, but could make it way better), maybe A/D conversion into a PC. After that, pretty much any reputable DAW can handle it, and send it along to a Pro Tools friendly environment.

Good luck!

I apologized if I sounded sarcastic, it wasn't meant to sound that way. I know this is way over my understanding and expertise. I won't even try to pretend that I know about the subject because I really don't.

How about getting an M-Audio Pro-Tools M-powered 7 with an interface that has the number of inputs I need?

It has been mentioned that Pro-tools is a standard in most studios but is that any version or is it the LE version?

[chris harris]

a few things...

if you're only needing the extra inputs to track your synths, then you could probably get by with fewer inputs. If the software you use handles midi, you could record the midi from your outboard sequencer into the software and then send the midi out of the software into your synths and record them one at a time in sync. it could save you from investing in more of an interface than you need.
but, if you want to give it a go and record drums or other multi-mic stuff, then get the extra inputs.

Pro Tools LE files should be compatible with whatever version of Pro Tools that your local studio is using.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, EVER consult salespeople at chain stores for advice on what you need. Those people are not hired because of their extensive knowledge of the equipment that they sell... they're working there because of their willingness to work for minimum wage and their desire for an employee discount. They really, really, really don't care about you or your situation.

You don't need a tube mic preamp to record your tube guitar amps. That part is what clued me in that you need to do a lot more research before shelling out money on this stuff. The gear that you're in the market for is mid range gear that will be practically worthless in resale value if you decide you've made a bad choice.

I'd spend a few weeks searching this forum and reading as much as you can. You can get a pretty good idea who's full of shit and who is offering real advice. That's one of the problems with forums like this. It takes a while to recognize who really knows what they're talking about and who is just pretending that they know what they're talking about. I don't know what it is about the internet that makes people think that they should represent themselves as having experience with something that they may have only read about. Hell, sometimes they've only read about the stuff on forums where it was probably someone else pretending that they had experience with the gear. It's baffling. I guess it's a desperate grasp for some cred in a virtual community.

Just remember, spend the time and you'll be able to tell who's shooting straight.