Picking an engineer

Recording Techniques, People Skills, Gear, Recording Spaces, Computers, and DIY

Moderators: drumsound, tomb

User avatar
jmoose
suffering 'studio suck'
Posts: 407
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:53 pm
Location: Normal, IL USA
Contact:

Post by jmoose » Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:06 pm

RuudUnit wrote:I've been having some conversations with some of the more well-known folks on our list (no we have't decided yet...) and to be honest it gives me the willies a little bit. The biggest factor is money. If we wanna work with some of these people, they're asking for weeks, which works out in the 10,000 range (way over budget).

But the other factor is our own readiness. I have a lot of faith in my band, but in some ways it feels like its something for which we're uprepared. Like we need to pay our dues a bit more. Hard to explain....

I guess in a sense I'm wary of working with a producer/engineer who is vastly more well-known than we are. That seems like an inversion of the proper relationship to me.
Nah, not really. It seems ideal to me, you find someone who's made a bunch of records and really digs the band. Ok, it might take two straight weeks of work but you're a BAND right? Call outta? the day gig & tell the family you're off to make a rekkid then blow town!

I deal with this kind of thing all the time and yah, you need a certain amount of capital to make a "real" record...but two of the biggest variables in determining the possible outcome of any record...?time vs. money?...are 110% related and fairly easy to shuffle around & manipulate in ways that won?t cripple the project.

There are about a bajillion ways to split up the different phases of making a record, and depending on how its split you could burn a $1000 a day or a $1000 a week. Where's the best place to spend the money? It depends on what 'ya wanna' do & how you go about getting it done. Do you want/need to make the record in a few days or can it be more spread out? What level of ?polish? are you looking for? I could also liken it to building a house. Do they want the 12 bedroom pad with marble but have a budget for a 3 bedroom ranch? Well maybe I can slide ?em into a 4-story two-bedroom with a decent backyard.

Beyond that don?t forget to allocate enough fundage for everything; Studio time for tracking basics, tape & hard drives, plenty of extra strings & drum heads/sticks etc. BEFORE you get to the studio, equipment repairs (is that amp supposed to be belching smoke???), maybe some rentals (new amp?) like a snake or microphones for overdubs back in the rehearsal space. How about a few days of mixing followed by mastering? That?s a couple three grand right? Don?t forget about artwork, duplication & all the other stuff like the FedEx bills, maybe a photographer and there?s always food & gas?funny how those go together isn?t it? Most of all these things have variable costs so it?s just a matter of spreading it around in the right amounts so you don?t come up short in the home stretch. Hopefully the person you pick will have enough experience that they can guide you through the process without turning up the ?suck?.

There?s an ancient saying that I?ve sorta found to be true; ?It?s when we feel the least bit sure that we?re often about take the biggest leaps forward?. If you?re not entirely sure that you?ve paid your dues, then you need to be 110% sure that the next record you make has every chance of you giving a shot at paying ?em. That?s the good stuff?MTV tours & crazy chicks!

Peace,
J. 'Moose' Kahrs
mixer|producer|audio engineer
www.mooseaudio.net

www.oxidelounge.com

User avatar
RuudUnit
gettin' sounds
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:13 pm

Update

Post by RuudUnit » Wed May 03, 2006 6:26 pm

So there's news, for anyone who might have been curious.

On May 15th we'll be going into a place called New Improved Recording in Oakland (newimprovedrecording.com), working with Eli Crews and Greg Saunier (deerhoof drummer) as engineers/producers.

We'll be tracking to tape for 4 days, transfering to digital, then working on overdubs for a couple months.

We plan to take our time getting vocals right, experimenting with different instruments (I play some brass, we have friends who play strings, we all dabble in electronic music), do some keyboards and pianos on-site in various places (the cafe where our drummer works has the most beautifully out of tune piano). It's our hope that this is the ideal process to get the best of both worlds: strong live energy and a really cool/capable/tasteful team of engineers who have an intimate understanding of where we're trying to take this coupled with a pretty decent span of time to sit with stuff and make some more involved choices. It should be evident that we worked really hard on it and had an amazing time.

The pre-production experience itself has been enjoyable - it's not every band that can sit in a room and hash out parts 5 or more hours a day and still want to hang out with each other afterward.

I'm really excited about what we're doing, so hopefully you all will like it as much as I do.

Any comments, criticisms, suggestions?

Thanks,
Eric
Others say he could have been motivated by fear, anger or desire to breed.

User avatar
RuudUnit
gettin' sounds
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:13 pm

Post by RuudUnit » Wed May 03, 2006 6:28 pm

One thing I didn't mention:

We're still looking down the road at mixing, and we've been considering it as a separate part of the process. I think we're leaning towards spending 5-6 days in a studio with a large console and plenty of outboard gear. Not sure yet beyond that. Sometime in July probably.
Others say he could have been motivated by fear, anger or desire to breed.

wwittman
alignin' 24-trk
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 1:38 pm
Location: New York

Post by wwittman » Wed May 03, 2006 9:26 pm

if there's a producer, won't he (they?) be deciding how and where to mix it?
William Wittman
Producer/Engineer
(Cyndi Lauper, Joan Osborne, The Fixx, Hooters, The Outfield...)

User avatar
JWL
deaf.
Posts: 1870
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: Maine
Contact:

Post by JWL » Wed May 03, 2006 10:15 pm

Hey Ruud,

I agree, I think your schedule is pretty much on the money, except that I'd allow more time for mixing. If the band really is tight, then 3 days is plenty of time. Use the first day for getting sounds and sort of absorbing the vibe of the studio, get a lot of good takes on day 2, and on day 3 get what you missed on day 2.

Take the tracks home, edit them if needed, clean them up, and prepare them for overdubs. Do your overdubs, paying particular attention to vocals.

If it were me, I'd go ahead and do a mix at home too. Nothing too elaborate, just get stuff in the ballpark in terms of balance. Maybe then when you go in, you can print a bunch of stems and fine tune the mix there, using whatever superior gear the studio has.

User avatar
RuudUnit
gettin' sounds
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:13 pm

Post by RuudUnit » Fri May 05, 2006 4:21 pm

wwittman wrote:if there's a producer, won't he (they?) be deciding how and where to mix it?

If only it were that simple!

Greg Saunier is a busy man. He'd probably mix it except his band is opening for radiohead all July and has about a million other things going on. As is it's hard to get ahold of him....
Others say he could have been motivated by fear, anger or desire to breed.

User avatar
RuudUnit
gettin' sounds
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:13 pm

Post by RuudUnit » Fri May 05, 2006 4:29 pm

jwl wrote:Use the first day for getting sounds and sort of absorbing the vibe of the studio, get a lot of good takes on day 2, and on day 3 get what you missed on day 2.
Hey, that's good advice! We need to start thinking about what exactly we expect to accomplish each day... and I think you're on the right track. We have 7 songs, we were kinda thinking 2 a day and 3 on one of the days, but maybe your plan is better...
jwl wrote: If it were me, I'd go ahead and do a mix at home too. Nothing too elaborate, just get stuff in the ballpark in terms of balance. Maybe then when you go in, you can print a bunch of stems and fine tune the mix there, using whatever superior gear the studio has.
Interesting... I'm not really that familiar with using stems.

In my mind, I'm thinking that we'd want to process drums individually, use the console's summing instead of digital, that whole deal. And I'm not sure how stems work into that. I guess it just seems like loss if fidelity is hard to avoid if I mix it myself.

One thing I definitely want to do is have our tracks organized reallly really well, maybe pare things down to only what's necessary, so whoever ends up mixing it won't have to waste their time on a bunch of bullshit.
Others say he could have been motivated by fear, anger or desire to breed.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 81 guests