Subtractive EQ question??

cyrusjulian · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:45 am Post subject: Subtractive EQ question??

What do you guys usually do? While I have learned that you always want to try and get the sound you want at source, I do find I usually roll off some of the highs on my kick and bass and lows on acoustic guitar to "give it their own space". I was curious how others approach "subtractive eq". For example, does anybody here roll off all the lows on everything except for the kick and bass?? And will you roll it off slightly or completely? Would appreciate any feedback and thoughts.

Thanks!
Cyrus

**cgarges** · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:47 am Post subject: Re: Subtractive EQ question??

There was a great thread about this a while back. I think bluepxl was the author.

Chris Garges
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cyrusjulian · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:03 am Post subject: Re: Subtractive EQ question??

Thanks cgarges. Would you happen to remember the name of the topic or about how long it was ago? I tried doing a search on subtractive eq before I posted this topic. Hey blue, if you're reading this, do you remember the name of your thread?

Thanks!
Cyrus

**cgarges** · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:09 am Post subject: Re: Subtractive EQ question??

See what comes up if you search for EQ. I'll try to find it, too. It's been within the past couple months.

Chris
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**cgarges** · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:48 am Post subject: Re: Subtractive EQ question??

Sorry for leading you down the wrong path. Here it is:

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=5129&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

That search engine does kind of blow. It's a bit misleading.

Chris Garges
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cyrusjulian · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:53 am Post subject: Re: Subtractive EQ question??

"I think there's some ancient Chinese proverb that says that one cut is worth a thousand boosts"

Hehe, that's just a brilliant quote. Anyways, hey Chris, I think I found the thread you were talking about. I think it was called "Gimme some room" Great info on that thread. When you said in your post that these guys would turn up the volume and just find the harsh frequencies and cut them out, can I ask how they would do that. Would they just turn up each eq knob separately (with all the other eq knobs in the neutral position) and see which frequency they didn't like and then just cut it completely? Here's a total newbie question but is that what they mean by "sweeping through the frequency range?"

Thanks again for your help!
Cyrus

rainsinvelvet · gettin' sounds Joined: 23 Jun 2003 Posts: 101

I'll take a stab at this one....

the "sweeping through the freq. range" comment usualy means that if your using a parametric eq (ie: an eq that you can select the spacific frequency you would like to boost/cut). Boost your EQ (turn your monitors down before doing this) and while you've listining, switch(sweep) between the different freq. until you find the most offending frequency. Then, CUT the offending freq. to taste.

Now, if your using a eq that has fixed freq. points "sweeping" between points is not realy do-able.

Hope this helps. Eric

God, I suck at expaining things Laughing

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**cgarges** · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:04 am Post subject: Re: Subtractive EQ question??

Simple, with a parametric EQ. Set bandwidth ("Q") to narrowest setting. Boost wherever you're hearing the stuff you need to take out (lows, low mids, high mids, or highs) all the way. Then, sweep the frequency knob 'til the worst crap is really loud. (This can be room resonances, "boxy" sounds, sibilance, whatever.) Then, reduce the boost to a cut. usually a really minor one. If you need to, widen the "Q." There's usually a great spot somewhere between a very small, wider cut and a narrower deeper cut that takes out the messy stuff without removing too much "beef." I'm talking like half a dB, maybe down to like -2 or -3 dB. When you get used to hearing them, these kinds of cuts can make HUGE differences in the clarity of your mixes.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
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**cgarges** · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:06 am Post subject: Re: Subtractive EQ question??

...or yeah, what Eric said.

CG
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cyrusjulian · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:24 am Post subject: Re: Subtractive EQ question??

Thanks Chris! Thanks Eric.! It was explained perfectly..

Regards,
Cyrus

cyrusjulian · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Subtractive EQ question??

I apologize in advance if this has already been answered in an older thread, but do you find that you have to raise the levels (even a little) on the individual tracks (ex. kick, bass) after you have applied subtractive eq to those tracks?

Nowadays, when I get ready to mix, I start out with no eq, no panning, no effects and just set up an overall balance based on just levels. But everytime I've done that, then say cut some of the highs and mids on the kick and bass, I find myself always pushing up the faders a tad bit. Does anyone else here who uses subtractive eq find they do that as well. Is that supposed to happen? Oh, I also don't have a parametric eq, so I've just been using the eq on my A & H MixWizard.

Thanks!
Cyrus

**cgarges** · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Subtractive EQ question??

Any time you change one thing, it's going to affect something else. Sometimes, yes, you need to push the level up a bit. Sometimes if you're looking to get something to sit back in the mix with more definition, you may have to pull it back even farther. Sometimes if you add compression, there's more apparent loudness so you'll need to pull it back. Sometimes, with certain pieces of outboard gear, there is again change built-in because of the way the circuitry is designed. (The ART PRO VLA, NTI/Night Technologies/Nightpro EQ3, and older Altec EQ/filters come to mind as either adding or losing some level.) Sometimes adding an effect can change a listener's perception of how loud something is.

Everything in some way affects everything else. It all depends.

Chris
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joeysimms · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Subtractive EQ question??

Sheep in Punk Clothing · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: Subtractive EQ question??

Im not sure if this was said yet..i find what helps a lot is cutting the offending f and all its multiples as well..like if its 80hz cut 160 and so on and downward as well..
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djslayerissick · buyin' gear Joined: 07 May 2003 Posts: 584

i use subtractice EQ on rhythm guitars and bass more than anything, especially if they are downtuned.

the goal with downtuning (for me) is to make bass and rhythm guitar into one monstrous chunk machine.

that means a little distortion on bass and taking out double/conflicting frequencies between the 2 instruments. i'll often take out everything below 180 hz on the guitar. which means i can double the overall volume of the guitar. (i like loud guitars)

and for clarity's sake, i take out everything below 90 hz on bass and let the bass drum live below 90hz with some smack in the 1khz to 2khz. also some mid-range cut on bass to let the guitar breathe more and to get rid of the 'hollow' sound of the bass. now i can make the bass louder in the mix.

for metal, its all about making everything LOUD.

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