The end of the album, the rise of NASCAR.

[willhouk]

There has been a lot of talk in the last few years about the state of the music industry in regard to selling/stealing music. It's tough for artists and studio owners in the age of iTunes and digital music.

I have been thinking about where this is all leading and I had this thought. I wonder if 10 years from now most musicians will make money not by selling songs and albums, but rather through ad sponsorship. Think about the song by Trane "Hey Soul Sister." I don't have the numbers on this, but I would think they made more money from that song appearing in commercials than the did from record sales. That song has been all over the place the last few months. Since most young people steal music and don't buy it, will this force artists to look to other sources for revenue, and will that source be selling their songs to ad firms for commercialization?

Now, is this is positive or negative thing? That's a whole other topic, but I wonder if this is where the music industry is heading. Will artists look like NASCAR racers with ads plastered all over their stage as they play shows? Will album covers be slathered with ads, and artists web sites be pop-up havens? I don't know but it's an interesting idea I think.
_________________
Be well, do good work, and keep in touch.

[fossiltooth]

It already works that way to some degree. Maybe moreso in a lot of other countries. Maybe ask Joel about it? I could be mistaken, but I've heard they have even more of it in South America than we do here - Sneaker companies sponsoring bands, that kind of thing.

Of course there's always been a fair amount of that in the States, too. For a while in the 90s you could barely open a CD without reading about what kind of picks, strings, and sticks musicians were using. And marketers have always gone to great lengths and expense to get their clothes and logos onto celebrity musicians. That's not even mentioning straight-up multimillion-dollar commercial deals like Britney Spears or Michael Jackson sponsoring Pepsi, or comparatively smaller licensing deals like the ones from Apple.

I think it's always been there, and it will ramp up and ramp down in popularity as culture and economics inevitably shift one way or the other. I haven't seen any evidence that suggests we're in (or headed to) a phase where this is more rampant than usual. But if you see any signs, let us know!

On a personal level, I'm not the biggest fan of bald-faced commercialism in music - But that's just one man's opinion. For what it's worth, I'm sure this kind of sponsorship has been a real benefit in some people's lives.
_________________
Justin Colletti
Audio Engineer, Journalist

Read "Trust Me, I'm A Scientist". It's good.

Also: sign up to win free audio gear @ SonicScoop

[dwlb]

[Gregg Juke]

>>>>It already works that way to some degree.<<<<

The unfortunate truth is that things are significantly that way now, and have been for quite some time (at least since Sonny Boy Williamson, King Biscuit Flower, and BB King doing a "Pepticon" jingle).

GJ

[joelpatterson]

Didn't I see Robert Plant do a Viagra commercial? Or was that some feverish dream?
_________________
Mountaintop Studios
~The Peak of Perfection~
Petersburgh NY 12138

mountaintop@taconic.net

[RodC]

As an example, check out the Earl Scruggs and Lester Flatt show episodes on Netflix. They left all the comericials in. These are from the late '50s and early '60s.

Most ppl are use to seeing the old clips on YouTube and everything is stripped out except the music.

The amount of time spent on ads would prob loose most of today's audience.
_________________
'Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones'

http://www.beyondsanityproductions.com
http://www.myspace.com/beyondsanity

[willhouk]

I know that this has been happening for some time now at various degrees. Especially in the world of hip hop. That genre seems ready made for this sort of commercialism.

You guys probably know more about this then I do. Would you say a majority of musicians at this point in history make more money from commercials than record sales/touring? It doesn't seem that way to me from the bands I know, but I could be wrong.

What I am suggesting is that the influx of technology will spur a fundamental systemic change in the recording industry.
_________________
Be well, do good work, and keep in touch.

[chris harris]

[willhouk]

Well, I have a hard time believing that right now the majority of professional musicians make more money from commercial advertisements than record sales/touring/merch. But I could be wrong.
_________________
Be well, do good work, and keep in touch.

[Gregg Juke]

Where do you think the concept of the new "360" deals came from?
Money, and lots more of it, that the big labels couldn't get their mitts on.
TV, movies, endorsements, product placement, etc., etc.

The traditional realm of "management" and artist. Now the record companies want not only a piece, but the whole pie.

GJ

[DrummerMan]

I have no idea of percentages, but there is a huge push and has been for a while by a shitload of bands to get their music placed into Ads and TV shows. This is especially true, I believe, with Mid-level artists who are somewhat well known and "hip" sounding but don't necessarily command as astronomical licensing fees as, say, TV On The Radio might (and are therefor somewhat affordable to the producers) but see the possibility of making thousands of dollars off of 20 seconds of music placed into an episode of House as a worthwhile, somewhat attainable and tempting goal. Since the current trend there is Pre-existing music over original score (not all the time obviously, but it seems the majority of the time in the big money making areas: prime-time network TV and big Ad campaigns), it was an obvious bandwagon to jump on. It's not quite the same as being "sponsored" by a product, unless your group is hired to write a bunch of pop hits about Campbells Chicken Soup or something, but what I think has happened is that because it's one of the potentially best ways to make money with your music, people are writing more and more music with that goal in mind (consciously or not). I feel like a lot of the new music I hear has this incessant need to be SOOOOOO epic and soundtrack-of-your-life worthy, including all the dynamic breaks and breakdowns and buildups which are useful in getting primetime viewers more vested in the drama of a scene (don't get me wrong, all those things can make for great music as well). I can tell you that there ARE formulas in place for this shit (having been asked to follow them many times). Some bands pull it off, some make it sound really good, and some are just passable enough that if you're not really paying attention you don't notice just how you're being manipulated.

I don't even know if I really have a point here, definitely don't feel like I'm in a position to judge whether or not trying to make music that'll sell Volkswagons is any worse or better than how bands have sold themselves (or been sold by their labels) for decades and decades. Maybe it just happens to be the current state of technology and media that we're dealing with.
_________________
Geoff Mann
Composer - Los Angeles, CA

[willhouk]

Gregg Juke, I do not know what a 360 deal is. Could you explain that a little more.

Drummerman, thanks for your reply. This is the sort of thing I was aiming to talk about. That is a great insight about bands working with TV shows and what not. I honestly don't know the percentages of how much money is made this way either, but I can see a shift in that direction.

Does anyone know if there are any books/articles/blogs that discuss the factual side of this issue? What I mean by factual side is the actual numbers of where people make money. This is an interesting topic, I can't seem to find any solid info on it.
_________________
Be well, do good work, and keep in touch.

[chris harris]

The 360 deal just means that the labels want a piece of EVERYTHING. Touring, merch, licensing, etc. EVERYTHING. And, it came about because there is much more money to be made from those other things, than there is from selling records.
_________________
Studio - http://www.hookechosound.com
Label - http://www.wearenicepeople.com
Band - http://www.depthandcurrent.com
Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/HoodEchoSound

[Gregg Juke]

What Chris said above. As far as books or articles, they are out there, but it is of course difficult to get accurate dollar information. But if you generally "follow the money," you will see where things have been and where they are going. 360 deals came about as a "label land-grab" when they realized how much they were missing, and the trend towards licensing deals for TV/film/advertising for indie and small label bands has been steady and growing for about a decade (there have always been licensing deals and synch rights, of course; it's just that now more and more bands are vying for those deals as opposed to the traditional major label brass ring).

GJ

[fossiltooth]