Help me choose an appropriate reverb unit

[telepathy]

[calaverasgrandes]

I've been reading some horror stories on the TC Electronic mid to low range units having dodgy power supplies. Though the silver lining on that is that you might be able to buy a "broken" $2000 TC reverb for cheap and fix it?
I'm looking for a verb too.
I think my crappy synth playing would sound way better with a big old reverb.
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[cgarges]

Two reverbs I kind of never hope to be without again are the Sony R7 and the Klark Teknik DN-780. I have multiple units of both of these in case one breaks down. Both can be had for under $1k.

The 780 gets used on almost every session I do. Literally. It's such a terrific and wonderfully-under-rated reverb. It's simple to program and will do really nice natural room sounds in addition to some great artificial reverbs. I can get to almost anything I need REALLY quickly from the front panel controls. In fact, I mixed some stuff today and used both the non-linear verb and the 200ms delay. The #18 and #19 rooms are some of my favorites.

The R7 is totally great in a completely different way. It has some nice natural verbs, too, although it's definitely got a '90s Japanese digital grit to it. In smaller amounts, it can be perfect for adding a tiny bit of almost undetectable ambience, but the bigger, washier stuff is almost out of hand. It's got some really great goofier effects, too, including some nice modulations and delays.

I agree that the SPX990 is probably the best of the Yamaha units. If you're a fan of the mid 80s records done by Don Gehman, for example, than the Yamaha REV7 can be had for like NO BREAD these days and it's a very cool reverb. The #22 snare verb on that thing is an extremely recognizable sound. The SPX90II has some of the same verbs and is also a very handy box.

I always liked Lexicon verbs, too, although they have an extremely distinct sound. I'm a big fan of the LXP-1s, which I assume you can probably still get fairly cheap, but I think they're difficult to repair if I'm not mistaken. The PMC60s are still great, as are the old Model 200s. As for slightly more modern bang for the buck, I think the MPX-1 is a great addition to the line, with a separate, dedicated chip for the reverb sounds and another for the delays and modulation effects. It's kind of a pain in the ass to program, but it's got some really useful stuff in it.

I've used the TC M2000 and M3000 and they're cool, but they just don't so it for me. There's something totally unexciting about them, although I've certainly heard some GREAT records made with those things, including anything that Tony (drumsound) has used them on. He has those things totally figured out and I know a lot of great engineers who really like them.

I LOVE H3000s and the "New House" or "Empty House" or whatever it's called is a stellar verb, but like Tony, I almost never use those things for reverb. There's so much other stuff that they do well that I usually find myself saving those for something other than verb duties.

I used a Bricasti last summer at Wellspring Sound in Massachusetts and I TOTALLY fell in love, but I've not yet shelled out the dough for one. I'd also love to have a stereo EMT plate at Old House, but that hasn't happened yet, either.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
_________________
www.chrisgarges.com
www.oldhousestudio.com
Bunky Moon, The Public Good
Playing drums with Mitch Easter

[cgarges]

Two reverbs I kind of never hope to be without again are the Sony R7 and the Klark Teknik DN-780. I have multiple units of both of these in case one breaks down. Both can be had for under $1k.

The 780 gets used on almost every session I do. Literally. It's such a terrific and wonderfully-under-rated reverb. It's simple to program and will do really nice natural room sounds in addition to some great artificial reverbs. I can get to almost anything I need REALLY quickly from the front panel controls. In fact, I mixed some stuff today and used both the non-linear verb and the 200ms delay. The #18 and #19 rooms are some of my favorites.

The R7 is totally great in a completely different way. It has some nice natural verbs, too, although it's definitely got a '90s Japanese digital grit to it. In smaller amounts, it can be perfect for adding a tiny bit of almost undetectable ambience, but the bigger, washier stuff is almost out of hand. It's got some really great goofier effects, too, including some nice modulations and delays.

I agree that the SPX990 is probably the best of the Yamaha units. If you're a fan of the mid 80s records done by Don Gehman, for example, than the Yamaha REV7 can be had for like NO BREAD these days and it's a very cool reverb. The #22 snare verb on that thing is an extremely recognizable sound. The SPX90II has some of the same verbs and is also a very handy box.

I always liked Lexicon verbs, too, although they have an extremely distinct sound. I'm a big fan of the LXP-1s, which I assume you can probably still get fairly cheap, but I think they're difficult to repair if I'm not mistaken. The PMC60s are still great, as are the old Model 200s. As for slightly more modern bang for the buck, I think the MPX-1 is a great addition to the line, with a separate, dedicated chip for the reverb sounds and another for the delays and modulation effects. It's kind of a pain in the ass to program, but it's got some really useful stuff in it.

I've used the TC M2000 and M3000 and they're cool, but they just don't so it for me. There's something totally unexciting about them, although I've certainly heard some GREAT records made with those things, including anything that Tony (drumsound) has used them on. He has those things totally figured out and I know a lot of great engineers who really like them.

I LOVE H3000s and the "New House" or "Empty House" or whatever it's called is a stellar verb, but like Tony, I almost never use those things for reverb. There's so much other stuff that they do well that I usually find myself saving those for something other than verb duties.

I used a Bricasti last summer at Wellspring Sound in Massachusetts and I TOTALLY fell in love, but I've not yet shelled out the dough for one. I'd also love to have a stereo EMT plate at Old House, but that hasn't happened yet, either.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
_________________
www.chrisgarges.com
www.oldhousestudio.com
Bunky Moon, The Public Good
Playing drums with Mitch Easter

[substitute]

There's a few DN-780's on ebay all around $1500, but with nobody bidding on them.
And the Sonys seem to be going for around $300, which seems like a good deal.

I'm picking up that reverb is not going to be a one and done thing, so LOTS of great pieces to look out for.

After that review I'm definitely going to look for a demeter, seems like that and a digital piece would cover a lot of ground.

awesome

[top_ape]

Have you considered something other than a digital unit? Do you have a spare room you might be able to set up as a chamber? How about a DIY plate?

They both have their downsides, notably space and ambient noise issues. However the upside is they'll likely sound far better, more natural at least, and function much better as a send for processing multiple sources.

Digital stuff can be good (plugins too) but I find that as a send on more than one thing they start to fall apart, get muddy, just stop sounding good. If you're willing to print fx separately one at a time you can certainly get great results but I find it to kill workflow and be just generally inconvenient.

[calaverasgrandes]

The best reverb I ever heard was a large, very asymetrical room with a mic up close on the amp, and another mic about as far away as possible. Hardware verbs can't imitate the molecular detail a reverb like that has.
Though to be fair, you would have to have a studio in a grain silo to imitate the cavernous verbs that the hardware boxes can do.
And modulated verbs are hard to make IRL unless you use a rotating speaker (or rotating mic?).
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[substitute]

Chris (or any one else for that matter),
I noticed you've got some nice reverbs, and I've noticed you've recorded lot's of bands. Could you post links to some tunes that you feel showcases the Sony, Klark Teknik or what have you?

[Snarl 12/8]

Maybe I'm insane, but I've always felt like it was pretty easy to dial in a "natural sounding" verb on my Yamaha Rev 7. In fact, there are only a couple of verbs on it that sound really over the top. (Unless you tweak parameters to the extremes.) The way I look at it, the Rev 7 is a room simulator. And some of the verbs have essentially all of the important acoustic parameters of real rooms up for tweaking. Predelay, absorbtion, size, etc. You can make it sound weird mostly only in the ways that some real rooms sound weird. Flutter echoes, phasey shit, etc.

I always associate the SPX 90 with that overwrought 80's sound, but not its cousin, the Rev 7. But I might be a complete philistine when it comes to tastes in "natural sounding" audio. And I don't have much experience as an operator of the SPX90 although I bought a Rev 7 new in 1986 and still have it.
_________________
Carl Keil

[calaverasgrandes]

The ITB TC Electronic reverbs always sounded very natural to me. Their hardware cousins always seemed a little hyped sounding. Going on the assertion that the ones on a Powercore are the same algorithms as the hardware boxes, I wonder if it is all just in the conversion?
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[telepathy]

yeah, the SPX90 can sound OK with the right tweaking and a little EQ/filtering on the send & return, but most of the time it ends up sounding like bad small-club 80's/90's disaster reverb.
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get up with it

[substitute]

[cgarges]

[cgarges]

[Nick Sevilla]

[jefe]

This is something I've been looking into myself. Like you, I have some good "bang for the buck" equipment (Hamptone HVTP2, Drip LA-2a, Speck ASCs, Beyerdynamic mics, AT-4060), but nothing ultra high-end. I also am recording to tape (1/2" Ampex 440-4).

I have an MPX-100, mentioned earlier, and I find it ok if used subtly. Some sounds do have a distinct digital graininess.

After spending a lot of time looking around, the Zerotronics spring reverbs are on my hit list. The sound samples (for all versions) are pretty impressive. Percussion doesn't sound springy unless pushed hard, and the vocal and flute samples are gorgeous. So when I get around to purchasing a new reverb, I'll be buying one of the Zerotronics models.

[substitute]

Cool, never heard of zereotronics I'll check it out. Chris, thanks so much for posting the links, obviously it's hard for me to separate what's mic technique, actual room, and added reverb but it does help provide some context.

I was just watching some bricasti videos, $3700 is still out of my price range, but when you compare that to what a high end lexicon unit cost in 1985 it's really a bargain.