For Those of You with Historical Knowledge (recording)...

[Gregg Juke]

So, a question for the TapeOp historians, regarding doubling.

If the 4-track and 8-track recorders didn't become widely available until the late 60's, how was doubling accomplished, most of the time, in the 50's and early 60's? I know that Les Paul was doing disk-to-disk multiples long ago, and I know about sel-sync and sound-on-sound, and I know that Motown had their own homebrew 3-track machines before a lot of other folks. But if that was pretty rare, and live mono recording was the norm/de rigguer, how/why are soooo many records filled with obviously doubled lead vocals? Was there a standard way of accomplishing this, or was it up to the producer/engineer/studio and whatever proprietary techniques that they could come up with?

I know that Geoff Emerick has mentioned a mechanical/tape-loop(?) "doubling machine" that accomplished a lot of the Beatles vox ("John Lennon loved it!").

Even though it was possible technically, I think (my sense) is that it was still mostly, by and large, unlikely, and yet, there are so many records with obviously doubled lead vox. I've been listening to oldies AM radio recently, and it really is there. Case in point-- Ricky Nelson's "Fools Rush In" (but I heard many more).

So, what up with that? If you know...

GJ

[dwlb]

One possibility is that a doubled vocal was recorded live during a reduction pass from one 3- or 4-track machine to another.
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[vvv]

It's a little known secret, but John Lennon's vocals were often doubled by Yoko, ...


... just like Paul's were by Linda, ...


... and Ricky's by Ozzie and Harriet.




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vlayman; THD; blog; TFP

[Snarl 12/8]

[Gregg Juke]

I suppose that could have happened once or twice, Carl, but it doesn't explain what I'm hearing. You know how you can tell when a vocal is doubled? Early to mid Beatles as an example? Well, I hear a lot of that. Check out the Ricky Nelson tune I referenced. That's (both voices) Ricky. And in those "more talented" days (I'm inclined to agree with you), having someone else double a lead for somebody of that stature would have resulted in a much bigger scandal than Milli-Vanilli or today's Auto-Tune caca. Somehow, the actual lead vocalist was doing a thickening pass, sometimes breaking-out in harmony (as on the previously mentioned "Fools Rush In"), so I'm just wondering if there was a standard technique, or a multiplicity...(?)

Bob Olhsson told me that overdubs are as old as Caruso. Just wondering what might have been the standard back in the days when everything was "live off the floor" and in mono.

GJ

[vvv]

Didja's see this?


Or this:
"In 1947, Putnam made the first recording of a single artist singing more than one line on a recording. Patti Page sang one vocal line of "Confess",[2] a duet in which the second part was recorded onto a large 17.25" disc and then played back as she sang the main vocal line; the two vocals and accompaniment being wedded onto a wire recorder. Les Paul followed in short order with his own quite different technique for doubling vocals."
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vlayman; THD; blog; TFP

[Snarl 12/8]

Your conjecture is probably way better than mine then. What about on the mastering pass? I thought I heard that they used to overdub stuff (but not what they would overdub) on the way to lacquer and shit.

Anyway, I hope someone can answer this for realz.
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Carl Keil

[vvv]

Because, ...


... my answer is fakez?


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vlayman; THD; blog; TFP

[Gregg Juke]

Thanks guys. Between what y'all have posted, and Dominick's answer in the "Recording" forum, I think I've got it...

GJ

[cgarges]

Half-track machines were totally around in the early 60s, so doubled vocals were often printed (along with solos, percussion, etc.) to the track opposite the full-band take. And then, if there was a half-track or multi-track machine in use, additional instruments were often added during the mixing pass. Those additions wouldn't be present on the multi-track, just on the mix reel.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
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www.chrisgarges.com
www.oldhousestudio.com
Bunky Moon, The Public Good
Playing drums with Mitch Easter

[cgarges]

Half-track machines were totally around in the early 60s, so doubled vocals were often printed (along with solos, percussion, etc.) to the track opposite the full-band take. And then, if there was a half-track or multi-track machine in use, additional instruments were often added during the mixing pass. Those additions wouldn't be present on the multi-track, just on the mix reel.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
_________________
www.chrisgarges.com
www.oldhousestudio.com
Bunky Moon, The Public Good
Playing drums with Mitch Easter

[Gregg Juke]

Just like "flying" samples in or additional parts added at mixdown live-to-dat; different ways we used to cheese extra space from a low track-count situation!

Nothing is new under the Sun...

GJ