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Knights Who Say Neve
buyin' a studio
Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 983
Location: The Mome Raths Outgrabe
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 Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: The Future Engineer - Observations |
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| Quote: |
Jim Scott:
"Everyone was a little younger than me. Being a little older actually worked out to my advantage - I already had life experience. If my job as janitor was to clean the bathroom, I just did it right and then I did the next job they give me right and I got a reputation for doing things right. “Who should do this job? We need somebody to take this guy to the airport.” “Ask Jim because Jim will get him there on time.” “We need somebody to go get five sandwiches. It’s Brooks Arthur and he’s not having a good day, so we need the sandwich to be right when it comes back.”
You make sure if somebody wants pickles, he has pickles. You check the order. You check the cassette when somebody says, “Make a cassette of the new Rod Stewart record and take it over to Rod Stewart’s house.” You don’t just make a cassette and run up there. You make a cassette and then you listen to it. If the cassette doesn’t sound good you make another. I don’t think it’s hard, but you’ve got to have a pride in it - in anything. Just do a great job and somebody will recognize it and hire you again. If you do a really crummy job they definitely will not hire you again. It’s not just about recording and engineering. It’s about anything, any job." |
| Quote: | 1) learn how to solder PROPERLY
2) get an electronics degree (or thereabouts)
if you can wire a studio>>>>>>>>big plus
if you can repair equipment>>>>>blow job from studio owner.
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Both of these, * 1 million. Except for the blow job part. Euuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.
BTW I can soldier and have an electronics degree, and some time on my hands...anyone in southern california need an intern / repair guy? You'll have to pay or compensate me somehow though. I'm too old to start sponging off of my parents again.
_________________
"What you're saying is, unlike all the other writers, if it was really new, you'd know it was new when you heard it, and you'd love it. That's a hell of an assumption". -B. Marsalis
Last edited by Knights Who Say Neve on Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Brian
dead but not forgotten
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 2222
Location: corner of your eye
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psychwardmedia
audio school graduate
Joined: 13 Mar 2012
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:46 pm Post subject: give him a break |
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| TV Lenny wrote: | Many many good points.
Just an update of the gentleman I was originally inspired by to start this thread...
I saw on his FB page he's now offering "Professional Mixing and Producing" amoung his services. I wonder how that works in a dorm room with hacked software. He also doesn't grasp the difference between mixing and mastering, yet claims to offer both.
I guess he'll learn that in school though! |
give the kid a break. Do you know that he's marketing himself to those looking for the services of a high end studio or maybe he's just recording demos for the local guys.
The market is HARD today, the economy is DIFFICULT. Even for someone like myself with money, school, and all the time I could want. It's still hard. If he's got a passion and drive good on him. Who are we to tell him how to achieve what he's looking to achieve.
Myself I'm in the process of trying to find a place to intern, and until then it's as many free or paid/reduced price jobs as possible. I'm one of the lucky ones, I have a building I didn't have to buy or pay rent on, have the technical expertise to put together the acoustics and understand the finer points, dissassemble and reassemble any piece of vintage gear you hand me (with a little reading), and still a 10 k investment hasn't gotten me where I'd like to be. What I see in this forum is a lot of people who mean well, but have been in this for too long to know the desperation of the current market. You want to start a studio now? Well when "the fetish show" podcast shows up - you better accept it and be happy you're getting paid. Worry about recording bands in your own time.
If I were to offer anything from my limited experience as an engineer - it wouldn't be as an engineer. It would be from a close friends experience in high end business management. Broaden your horizons, take what you can get - not in a desperate way, you don't want them to think you're desperate, but find what is making money, regardless of what subcategory of this business it is, then capitalize on it. For my business I'm still finding that, but so far it's local guys and podcasting. Sort of.
Anyways, to put it in a nutshell don't be so quick to judge, as someone said earlier, (paraphrased) everyone has an opinion, but it's usually only based on their own experiences, and therefore only good for them. Find what's good for you. Then screw what everyone else said. Screw what I say. It's your life. If you make a million in your dorm selling demos good on you.
P.S. screw becoming an electrical engineer if you're motivated...become a HAM operator, subscribe to the journals, and join a local club. These guys either taught or invented most if not all theory taught at your local school...plus if you've never used a tropospheric inversion or tropospheric ducting to send a 2 meter signal beyond the horizon (think like a mirror in the sky or fiber optics in the sky)...it's pretty cool. |
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Brian
dead but not forgotten
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 2222
Location: corner of your eye
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psychwardmedia
audio school graduate
Joined: 13 Mar 2012
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: The Future Engineer - Observations |
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nice normal people get nowhere in life. My gf works for the government. She gets paid well and blows 5-10k in a day. She's not normal. I can finish an audio engineering course in a month. I can learn the finer points of electrical engineering in another month. I'm not normal. I've been to honduras and effing loved it. I'm not normal. I see myself as boy, girl, in between, and something alltogether different. I'm not normal - oh btw...is lady gaga normal? Was Michael Jackson or Elvis normal? Nope. Be proud of your "not normal" and stop trying to fit in. Give me a couple years. I'll be the best damn audio engineer alive. Don't like it? Get some not normal. Be willing to sacrifice the opinions of strangers, friends, significant others, and yes even become willing to lose your family to your "not normal". Until then...you're just too mediocre. That's how I see it. I absolutely agree with that gentleman and love it. It should be said I stopped listening at "not normal"
Oh...another couple not normals. The owners of Southwest Airlines, the owner of Jet Blue. Steve Jobs - read his FBI file. Bill gates. Donald Trump. There's one for ya. It's true. If you are willing to do what it takes to be the best you're probably a bit crazy, or you already had the crazy...I'm not sure which...though I think it's the crazy that comes first. My ex...there's a not normal, she worked as a makeup artist on the Twilight movie - she had 5 personalities. Edgar Allen Poe. Alexander the Great. Look throughout history. You'll find nothing but non normal at the top.
I look forward to hiring some of you. Peace.
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Psych Ward Media - The asylumn of sound |
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Brian
dead but not forgotten
Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 2222
Location: corner of your eye
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:21 am Post subject: Re: The Future Engineer - Observations |
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I agree. Normal is for normal lovers. Normal to me doesn't work. Ciphers, cogs in the machine, not for me.
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Oh shut up. |
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rogersbarton
audio school graduate
Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:24 am Post subject: Re: The Future Engineer - Observations |
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| TapeOpLarry wrote: | Interns and aspiring engineers: I was just refilling the c-fold towel dispensers (exciting, I know) and remembered how difficult it was for interns to load these properly time after time. So, if you can't properly deal with the routine of loading a low-tech device such as this when do you think you'll be ready for calibrating a tape deck? Seriously. Read Jim Scott's interview again.
Jim Scott:
"Everyone was a little younger than me. Being a little older actually worked out to my advantage - I already had life experience. If my job as janitor was to clean the bathroom, I just did it right and then I did the next job they give me right and I got a reputation for doing things right. “Who should do this job? We need somebody to take this guy to the airport.” “Ask Jim because Jim will get him there on time.” “We need somebody to go get five sandwiches. It’s Brooks Arthur and he’s not having a good day, so we need the sandwich to be right when it comes back.”
You make sure if somebody wants pickles, he has pickles. You check the order. You check the cassette when somebody says, “Make a cassette of the new Rod Stewart record and take it over to Rod Stewart’s house.” You don’t just make a cassette and run up there. You make a cassette and then you listen to it. If the cassette doesn’t sound good you make another. I don’t think it’s hard, but you’ve got to have a pride in it - in anything. Just do a great job and somebody will recognize it and hire you again. If you do a really crummy job they definitely will not hire you again. It’s not just about recording and engineering. It’s about anything, any job." |
You sound like a man with real ethics. Good for you. |
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psychwardmedia
audio school graduate
Joined: 13 Mar 2012
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:04 am Post subject: Re: The Future Engineer - Observations |
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| Brian wrote: | | I agree. Normal is for normal lovers. Normal to me doesn't work. Ciphers, cogs in the machine, not for me. |
I learned to be proud of my normal a while back, during some personal struggles with parts of me that are very "not normal", very abnormal. I then recently learned to apply that pride to other parts of my life, including and especially business from someone who has been very influential to me lately.
those who, like everyone else, like the norm, don't "really believe" they'll have a billion dollars, or a giant multinational corporation never do. Just like the norm. To become a winner, a success, you must think like you're a success or a winner, and at the level of success you desire.
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Psych Ward Media - The asylumn of sound |
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ALFweeks
audio school graduate
Joined: 19 Jan 2012
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:04 am Post subject: Re: The Future Engineer - Observations |
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| Self belief. |
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KendricK
pluggin' in mics
Joined: 17 Jan 2012
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:42 am Post subject: Re: The Future Engineer - Observations |
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| TV Lenny wrote: | I have nothing against schools. However, I think for audio engineering the internship, with perhaps some textbook work included, is more beneficial to the student in attaining a well rounded education. I know personally working along side someone with 20+ years of real experience in engineering and producing taught me far more than my textbook work.
I also wonder how if at all "virtual socializing" will affect newcomers to the audio field in dealing directly with clients. Will they have any difficulty in talking one-on-one with an artist? How will/have their social skills been affected, if at all? I don't know. I just hope when taking notes, they spell properly!  |
Agreed, there should be the right balance between practical lessons and academic studying. |
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KendricK
pluggin' in mics
Joined: 17 Jan 2012
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:17 am Post subject: Re: The Future Engineer - Observations |
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Recording Connection offers that doesn't it.
Academic study plus hands on practical training. |
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Beatwulf
audio school graduate
Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 20
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 10:05 am Post subject: Re: The Future Engineer - Observations |
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I've worked in a recording school and seen the reality of it. 99% of students DO NOT get a job in the industry, never mind a studio. They pay lots of money to study, they are sold a dream, a dream that never comes true. I believe there is more money in the educational side of the "music business" than in the actual industry itself. Thousands upon thousands of students "graduate" these courses every year, for what jobs?!?!
I sold my commercial studio last year as there is just no money it. The reality of it is (in my experience), that thousands of kids dream of these studio jobs that just don't exist, what they should teach in these schools is that IF you manage to get a job or start your own business, the days are very long, no-one REALLY wants to pay, you'll most likely end up spending your time working with shite bands who expect YOU to polish their "turd" and not want to pay you properly for your work. This may seem defeatist, but its true! I put years of my life into this industry, my soul, I BELIEVED that there were others out there who felt as strongly as I do about music, but most don't...the reality of the industry is, no life, no pay, 1 in 20 sessions are enjoyable and pay well.....thats not a good statistic for me.
My advice to any "aspiring engineer"; just don't. |
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Mario Hann
audio school
Joined: 08 May 2012
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: The Future Engineer - Observations |
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Audio engineering student here.
I have the bad feeling I made a wrong decision when it came to: study or get a loan and just start to record stuff (not that I didn't record stuff before I went to school).
There is certainly some vital knowledge to be learned here at my uni, like signal flow, using certain devices, electronics and more.
Theoretically you could learn it if you taught yourself, but you'd probably never know with certainty.
The practical part of studying here is ok. You can record in proper liverooms using proper consoles and proper mics with proper outboard.
You just have to get the musicians in here yourself. Which no one ever does. You read that right. Nobody uses the opportunities.
I prefer recording my own stuff because of the learning effect that has. I am kind of afraid to go out and find musicans, too. That is more of a personal problem than anything else though.
I just feel like the music biz is a fortress.
Everyone is better than you.
Everyone who isn't, knows how to market himself better than you.
Everyone who doesn't has better social skills.
Everyone who doesn't has more experience.
And so forth.
There is so much insane talent in the sector already that I can't begin to describe the amount of effort I feel I'm just wasting
trying to get my stuff up to a professional level.
It's not that I am not trying.
But I really wonder if even a TLA would get a job based solely on his talent today.
This "era" of expensive analog gear and big studios is slowly coming to an end.
Big record companies are going down the drain, so you will not be able to sell CDs to a million people anymore.
And I don't really know what to make of this.
Is the future producer a bit like a hairdresser, where you walk in and get a haircut, leave your 20 bucks and get out?
Sign me up!  |
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KendricK
pluggin' in mics
Joined: 17 Jan 2012
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:46 am Post subject: Re: The Future Engineer - Observations |
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| Beatwulf wrote: | I've worked in a recording school and seen the reality of it. 99% of students DO NOT get a job in the industry, never mind a studio. They pay lots of money to study, they are sold a dream, a dream that never comes true. I believe there is more money in the educational side of the "music business" than in the actual industry itself. Thousands upon thousands of students "graduate" these courses every year, for what jobs?!?!
I sold my commercial studio last year as there is just no money it. The reality of it is (in my experience), that thousands of kids dream of these studio jobs that just don't exist, what they should teach in these schools is that IF you manage to get a job or start your own business, the days are very long, no-one REALLY wants to pay, you'll most likely end up spending your time working with shite bands who expect YOU to polish their "turd" and not want to pay you properly for your work. This may seem defeatist, but its true! I put years of my life into this industry, my soul, I BELIEVED that there were others out there who felt as strongly as I do about music, but most don't...the reality of the industry is, no life, no pay, 1 in 20 sessions are enjoyable and pay well.....that's not a good statistic for me.
My advice to any "aspiring engineer"; just don't. |
I have no doubt that you speak the truth, however many kids actually expect to be the next best thing contrary to what they may be told. They see the glamor, wealth and whatnot and expect that to be thrown at their feet. |
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rogersbarton
audio school graduate
Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:33 am Post subject: Re: The Future Engineer - Observations |
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| From what I have observed, you seem to be right Kendrick |
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