Few female recording engineers

[Bob Olhsson]

There's actually a simpler, although disgusting reason for this.

I learned all of my basic audio skills in high school from two women who had been producers at NBC during the 1930s and '40s. Most of today's radio and television programming was invented by a Chicago woman named Judith Waller who was the first program director in addition to being a station manager. There were women throughout our industry prior to the end of World War 2.

At that point all the women got fired to make jobs for returning GIs and this led directly to only men being visible for several generations. The "housewife/breadwinner" family model was a fabrication of the late 1940s. Before that women worked their asses off right alongside men unless they happened to be rich.

[informationhoarder]

Gregg: "But if we're going to hold everybody to the same professional standard..."
We're not. We never will. It would be great to live in a world where sex or race was irrelevant, however, we do not.

Snarl: "Gregg, not to get pedantic on you, but she didn't really say any of that in her post..."
Gratitude. Not once did I show concern about sexism, nor label myself as a "target" of sexism.

I chose to post on this thread to show that there are (most likely) more women on the production side of "the industry" than a male engineer may assume. That's it.

Gregg: "BTW, _nobody's_ will ever be as big as mine, since the subject was brought up."

Prove it.

[Gregg Juke]

InfoHoarder/MissRose: "Prove it." Don't have to. Facts is facts.

Carl: My bad, I suppose. Perhaps I misread IF's post as well as the general tenor of the conversation. I still believe that my basic assertion stands, re:pix.

Bob: Hi! Good to see you around here again. And as always, the information you have to share is eye-opening.

GJ

[fossiltooth]

I learned all of my basic audio skills in high school from two women who had been producers at NBC during the 1930s and '40s. Most of today's radio and television programming was invented by a Chicago woman named Judith Waller who was the first program director in addition to being a station manager. There were women throughout our industry prior to the end of World War 2.

At that point all the women got fired to make jobs for returning GIs and this led directly to only men being visible for several generations. The "housewife/breadwinner" family model was a fabrication of the late 1940s. Before that women worked their asses off right alongside men unless they happened to be rich.

^^^This^^^

Also, for what it's worth, two of my favorite local radio engineers are women. Both are DJs for WFMU and both act as high-level audio engineers for some of the biggest shows on WNYC.

(For those of you from other areas, these are probably the two most important and influential radio stations in NYC, public or otherwise.)

Women's Audio Mission is doing great work, too, and I agree that I've seen more and more female lighting designers and audio engineers in recent years.

Female engineers, here's my new personal ad, tell me how to make it better:

Just want to say this is a fucking stupid thing to post; the tendency of male recordists to treat the women working in audio as first and foremost a potential dating pool is a big part of the reason it's not a welcoming environment.

As for this - Dude. If you think single women don't frequently see their coworkers as a potential pool in which to find a boyfriend, you're clueless about human beings, and probably need to make friends with more women to hear their side of the story.

The only difference, as displayed here, is that men often (but not always) have less-developed social skills and are more likely to come across as a giant boob about the whole thing.

...For lack of a better word.

And here I go, proving my own point once again.

[chris harris]

Female engineers, here's my new personal ad, tell me how to make it better:

Just want to say this is a fucking stupid thing to post; the tendency of male recordists to treat the women working in audio as first and foremost a potential dating pool is a big part of the reason it's not a welcoming environment.

As for this - Dude. If you think single women don't frequently see their coworkers as a potential pool in which to find a boyfriend, you're clueless about human beings, and probably need to make friends with more women to hear their side of the story.

The only difference, as displayed here, is that men often (but not always) have less-developed social skills and are more likely to come across as a giant boob about the whole thing.

...For lack of a better word.

And here I go, proving my own point once again.

I think that the operative phrase in dfuruta's post was "first and foremost". You're correct that both sexes view co-workers as potential dating partners. But, in the context of this discussion, it's a false equivalency. It's those under-developed social skills that are the difference between normal social interaction and sexual harassment or creating a hostile WORK environment.

[fossiltooth]

I think that the operative phrase in dfuruta's post was "first and foremost". You're correct that both sexes view co-workers as potential dating partners. But, in the context of this discussion, it's a false equivalency. It's those under-developed social skills that are the difference between normal social interaction and sexual harassment or creating a hostile WORK environment.

I take your point Chris, but speaking as man, I'd say that I definitely do not see female co-workers as potential dating partners "first and foremost." Speaking as someone who has always consciously chosen not to date in the workplace, that wouldn't even be 10th on my list. As a statement about men in general, I think that assertion is at best, coarse and inaccurate.

At least where I live, I've found very few men who are blatantly (or even subtly) sexist, dismissive or disrespectful toward female coworkers. Unfortunately, those who are tend to stick out like red flags, make the rest of us look bad, and may even seem over-representative of men at large. Fortunately, they don't tend to last long in any environment that you'd actually want to work in.

Personally, I'm not very interested in creating divisive dialogues between men and women. We're partners in life and work -- not opposing teams. Some men and women are predisposed to find "conventional" gender roles appealing, and some aren't. Either way, people should be able to take on any kind of work that appeals to them, that they're capable of doing, and that there's a demand for, regardless of their gender or anything else. They should also try not to be jerks. (That goes for men and women both.) For when they are, we have a legal system and companies have codes of conduct.

Sometimes you need decisive action, and sometimes all that's needed is a conversation. More often than not, it'll be the latter. And that's all I've got to say about that on an internet messageboard.

[chris harris]

Yeah, in my everyday life, I don't encounter that kind of jaw-dropping, blatant sexism very often either. Of course (and obviously), where I'm from, there's plenty of opportunity to witness that shit every day. But, it's just not common amongst those I CHOOSE to work and associate with.

But, it does exist. And, when you're interacting with a larger pool if ideas, such as on an internet message board, I don't really see it as non constructive to call it like it is. This isn't creating a divisive dialogue between men and women. It's creating an apporpriately divisive dialogue between thoughtful, respectful attitudes that will move humans forward, and the out-dated disrespectful attitudes that you rightly acknowledge "stick out like red flags, make the rest of us look bad, and may even seem over-representative of men at large".

I think it's important that men who don't buy into that garbage speak up about it.

Political Correctness is really inconvenient if you hold opinions or beliefs that are thoughtless and disrespectful. And, it should be. I believe that the only way to improve things is to have an honest dialogue about issues like this. And, sometimes that dialogue is contentious.

[vvv]

This thread is .

FWIW, I work inna white-collar profession where for the most part gender differences (altho' less often other "classifications", ex., race, religion, ethnicity which may be given positive preference) are professionally ignored, whatever the private thoughts of the individuals.

Those private thoughts are there, tho', and I think that people in general focus as much on another's differences as similarities, and so there can be subtle to less-than-subtle negative influence resulting therefrom.

It's human nature, of course, and at the least needs to be acknowledged.

These kinds of discussions are important, then, and I'm glad some of the "shy" are participating!

[vvv]

Oh, and:

Gregg: "BTW, _nobody's_ will ever be as big as mine, since the subject was brought up."

Prove it.

[Gregg Juke]

Right, aye vvv? I.H. certainly gets the "Honorary Stones 2012" award (I might make it myself)...

BTW-- I don't even know what I'm saying, or what any of this means, before everyone and anyone jump all over my clueless self.

GJ

[vvv]

You were funny, and I hope she was tryna be - I larfed, anyway.

[Angie]

Brian:
I married an engineer. And, you are right. It is great to be able to discuss your job with your spouse and have them understand everything you are talking about. We offer suggestions on each others projects and have worked together on some. We did not meet "on the job". But we knew each other through some professional circles.