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drumsound
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Joined: 02 Jun 2004
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Location: Bloomington IL
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 Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: Need some vocal EQ pointers |
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If you find an EQ point to boost on the vocal midrange that adds some nice clarity, consider removing some of that same frequency from other instruments to create a "hole" for the vocal to fit through.
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Tony
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ithoughticouldrelate
pluggin' in mics
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: Need some vocal EQ pointers |
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| Theo_Karon wrote: | | Portastudios are really good for this, not hitting the cassette tape at all but just cranking the input to get the channel to break up. |
Sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but do you mean using a Portastudio as a "preamp"/extra gain stage, or just cranking the trim and leaving the fader low so that you don't over-saturate the tape? I read it as the former — if so, do you mind sharing how you do this? Do you just take any post-fader out, like the cue mix or an effects send, into your main mixer/tape machine/DAW?
As to the original post, I agree with drumsound's tip above my post. Whenever I do a little midrange boost on an acoustic on my 4-track, I always end up cutting the same frequency slightly in the vocal. You don't even need to try to make the knob positions match, you can just hear it. Without looking try just cutting the mids EQ a few dB and sweep it through its frequency range while listening, and not looking. Can almost guarantee it will sound best when you have a "complimentary" cut to the other boost.
Granted, this might sound better in part due to the portastudio's limitations...the EQ isn't exactly "surgical" in my experience  .
If you have a more sophisticated EQ, you can really get into "sculpting." It's interesting how just a dB or two can make a huge difference. It's really subtle but if you trust your ears instead of being like, Hey, I "shouldn't" be doing it like this, chances are it will end up well. There's a lot of variables at play so I don't think there's ever a cookie-cutter approach. I was just thinking about this sort of thing the other day -- depending on your EQ and the Q of things, what might be sounding good to you might not be the actual frequency your EQ is set at but rather what it's doing to frequencies on either side of it. |
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vvv
on a wing and a prayer
Joined: 13 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:52 am Post subject: Re: Need some vocal EQ pointers |
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Re the use of it as a pre, I've read that Brad Laner of the band, Medicine uses a 4-track in front of his amp; see here.
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The Real MC
steve albini likes it
Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Need some vocal EQ pointers |
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| Today's modern guitars are notorious for smothering the audio spectrum and this is not something that EQ can fix. |
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ithoughticouldrelate
pluggin' in mics
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Need some vocal EQ pointers |
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| The Real MC wrote: | | Today's modern guitars are notorious for smothering the audio spectrum and this is not something that EQ can fix. |
Do you find this problem to be amplifier / pickup-specific? Or due to playing style, etc.? I guess I haven't really found myself running into this (or my ears aren't good enough yet to pick it out).
| vvv wrote: | | Re the use of it as a pre, I've read that Brad Laner of the band, Medicine uses a 4-track in front of his amp; see here. |
Thanks for the link. I'm surprised I'd never heard of that sort of thing before. |
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vvv
on a wing and a prayer
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: Need some vocal EQ pointers |
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I read a recent interview where he said he did it because he couldn't afford better, but he did get known for it. 
Something not entirely dissimilar, to me at least, is Brian May, where he uses the S/S Deacy amp his bass player built as a front end to his Vox back-line.
Re the guitar spectrum thing, for me that refers to modern amps, especially when gained-up, in that they often have so much bottom and top that they almost always require pass-filters. Especially amps like Boogies, in my experience.
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ithoughticouldrelate
pluggin' in mics
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:47 pm Post subject: Re: Need some vocal EQ pointers |
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| vvv wrote: | I read a recent interview where he said he did it because he couldn't afford better, but he did get known for it.
Something not entirely dissimilar, to me at least, is Brian May, where he uses the S/S Deacy amp his bass player built as a front end to his Vox back-line.
Re the guitar spectrum thing, for me that refers to modern amps, especially when gained-up, in that they often have so much bottom and top that they almost always require pass-filters. Especially amps like Boogies, in my experience. |
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for taking the time to explain! Stuff like this is why I love Tape Op (incidentally, I've been reading 2 or 3 pages of this forum from the very beginning each day...it's amazing what a wealth of information there is here for all skill levels). |
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The Real MC
steve albini likes it
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Need some vocal EQ pointers |
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| ithoughticouldrelate wrote: | | The Real MC wrote: | | Today's modern guitars are notorious for smothering the audio spectrum and this is not something that EQ can fix. |
Do you find this problem to be amplifier / pickup-specific? Or due to playing style, etc.? I guess I haven't really found myself running into this (or my ears aren't good enough yet to pick it out). |
Primarily amps, esp Boogies or simulators. They are great for sustain but too many players abuse that sustain for rhythm which smothers the spectrum. I hear that a lot around here. |
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lyman
buyin' gear
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Need some vocal EQ pointers |
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| The Real MC wrote: | | ithoughticouldrelate wrote: | | The Real MC wrote: | | Today's modern guitars are notorious for smothering the audio spectrum and this is not something that EQ can fix. |
Do you find this problem to be amplifier / pickup-specific? Or due to playing style, etc.? I guess I haven't really found myself running into this (or my ears aren't good enough yet to pick it out). |
Primarily amps, esp Boogies or simulators. They are great for sustain but too many players abuse that sustain for rhythm which smothers the spectrum. I hear that a lot around here. |
I have a couple amps with these really useful knobs on them for adjusting stuff like treble, mids, bass, etc. If the amp sounds bad, it's because of how I the guitarist dialed it in.  You can get good sounds with line 6, mesa, whatever....if you know when/how to use them. It's operator error otherwise. |
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KennyLusk
deaf.
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
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Location: Mesa, AZ, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: Need some vocal EQ pointers |
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| Theo_Karon wrote: | | Portastudios are really good for this, not hitting the cassette tape at all but just cranking the input to get the channel to break up. |
This is one of the reason I keep my old portastudio around. It has a wonderful sound for some things because of the built-in auto limiter.
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vvv
on a wing and a prayer
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Need some vocal EQ pointers |
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| lyman wrote: |
I have a couple amps with these really useful knobs on them for adjusting stuff like treble, mids, bass, etc. If the amp sounds bad, it's because of how I the guitarist dialed it in. You can get good sounds with line 6, mesa, whatever....if you know when/how to use them. It's operator error otherwise. |
"Operator error", and often, operator ego.
I literally broke up a band because of criticizing the rhythm guitarist's preference for his Fender M80 over his Fender Twin.
Well, that and the psilocybin some of us some were on.
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KennyLusk
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Need some vocal EQ pointers |
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[quote="vvv"] | lyman wrote: |
Well, that and the psilocybin some of us some were on. |
the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge 
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jgimbel
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| Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:52 pm Post subject: Re: Need some vocal EQ pointers |
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| vvv wrote: | | I literally broke up a band because of criticizing the rhythm guitarist's preference for his Fender M80 over his Fender Twin. |
I'm seriously concerned about potentially putting a band together again for my own music in a few months because I'm worried I might find someone who seems like they could be a good fit but doesn't like Fender guitars or likes amps with too much gain, etc. I wish I was kidding.
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Snarl 12/8
moves faders with mind
Joined: 20 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:03 am Post subject: Re: Need some vocal EQ pointers |
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| jgimbel wrote: | | I wish I was kidding. |
I wish you were too. Everybody is so fucking picky these days. (Not to pick on you specifically.) I see ads on craigslist that specify what brands of drums I need to have to audition. I can see wanting a particular sound in your music, but who really gives a shit how the player gets there. Unless you've got an endorsement deal or something. The gear (and even tone, groove, lyric, arrangement, etc., etc. I'd argue) fetishistic road we've headed down is making it really hard for human beings to just get together and make music like human beings should do.
Did Ug gave a crap what kind of femur Bak was using on that tortoise shell? Bak could throw it down on the tortoise shells! Bak played his balls off. Which is why, perhaps, we're stuck with Ug's descendents.
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vvv
on a wing and a prayer
Joined: 13 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Need some vocal EQ pointers |
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And those ugly Ug boots ...
BTW, TFP may have a new bassist (freeing me up for guitar). He plays a 800w. Mark Bass head w/ 4 x10" with G&L and Musicman actives, inna slap-n-pop stylee. I woulda picked none of that equip, or even that approach - he's awesome and fits right in, making us better.
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