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dennisjames
gettin' sounds
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 122
Location: Southeast Iowa
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 Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:15 am Post subject: Mastering Engineer help? |
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Not sure if this is the right place to post this but I'm looking for recommendations (or suggestions). I'm far enough along in a project to realize that the limits of my mixing skills are surfacing and I'm hoping to ultimately work with a ME who'd be willing to provide any neccessary coaching. Perhaps this is standard pratice but my only other self-recorded project was squeezed in last minute with the ME and there was no time for feedback.
Any thoughts??
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fossiltooth
carpal tunnel
Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 1697
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Mastering Engineer help? |
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If it was me, I'd recommend spending more on mixing and less on mastering.
As a good rule of thumb, each earlier step in the process outweighs the ones that follow it. The song outweighs performance, which outweighs recording, which outweighs mixing, which outweighs mastering. After about a decade of doing this kind of thing for a living, there's no doubt in my mind that great mixing has a far more meaningful impact than great mastering.
I remember once an acquaintance asked me if I'd mix his full length album for $500. I had to politely refuse at that rate, but I found it interesting that he ended up mixing it himself and paid Greg Calbi (what I'm assuming was well over than $1000) to master it. In the end, it sounded like Greg Calbi (who is amazing) mastered a demo. It was loud enough, and the the frequency balance was inoffensive, but I'm not sure if I understand the value in that. When you have a hi-hat that's louder than your guitar solo, a narrow, static and presentation of the material, and vocal effects that don't do the song any justice, what's the point? That's my take, anyway.
Mastering a sloppy mix can certainly work if you're The Moldy Peaches, but I wouldn't recommend it for everyone.
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Justin Colletti
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Last edited by fossiltooth on Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:14 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Nick Sevilla
cryogenically thawing
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 3653
Location: Los Angeles California USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Mastering Engineer help? |
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What Justin said.
The mastering is only a slight polish and volume adjustment.
It cannot change the internal relationships of single elements of a mix.
Can I ask, where you got the idea that a Mastering Engineer can somehow alleviate mixing shortcomings? Because that is simply not true.
Cheers
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fossiltooth
carpal tunnel
Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 1697
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Mastering Engineer help? |
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Also Dennis, as far as coaching goes, there's almost no better learning experience than working with a good mixer on material you're familiar with, and then asking the mixer what he did. I've learned a ton from guys who have mixed things that I've recorded, and I've also learned a ton about recording from mixing tracks recorded by others. (I'd like to think that this has been a two-way street as well, but you'd really have to ask them!  )
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Justin Colletti
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dennisjames
gettin' sounds
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Posts: 122
Location: Southeast Iowa
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Mastering Engineer help? |
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Thank you both.
I'm pretty happy with the mixes but I'm just uncertain of them. And I realize that a ME can't alleviate mixing shortcomings. To be clear, I was hoping to find a ME that would provide feedback if the mastering process revealed anything that was problematic. A friend of mine played on a project where the ME (Rick Fisher) did this sort of thing and the band went back and made the changes before returning to finish the master. Rick mastered our first CD and I tried someone else on the second -- both did great jobs and I may just return to either of them but I like the idea of trying someone new.
And I love the idea of working with a mixer but I just don't have the budget. This is a is very small run side project of mine that will not see any tour support so I've got to keep the outlays very small. It would be great to take it to a good mix engineer and see what is done to my project. I'm not going to rule it out. Perhaps I could have them do a single and try to learn from that?
Thanks again.
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fossiltooth
carpal tunnel
Joined: 24 Mar 2007
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Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Mastering Engineer help? |
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| dennisjames wrote: | It would be great to take it to a good mix engineer and see what is done to my project. I'm not going to rule it out. Perhaps I could have them do a single and try to learn from that?
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Not a bad idea! I had a band hire me to mix the 3 lead tracks on their album recently, and they did the rest themselves. Those 3 ended up being the tracks that helped them get some real press, and that's not an uncommon approach for burgeoning artists to take.
Just off the top of my head, if you listen to the first Pretenders record you can really hear the difference between "Brass In Pocket" and literally, everything else on the album. It fits with everything else, but there are reasons that one stood out and grabbed people on the radio at the time.
There are a lot of great mixers out there who are affordable if you're uncertain whether the tracks that you'll be promoting are all the way "there" just yet. Getting someone from that weird mainstream cabal of mixerdudes like Joe Chiccarelli or CLA or Puig probably costs a fortune, but there are plenty of guys who do great work outside of that world. I know that Chris Shaw mixes at home these days, so he's probably on the affordable side for a something of a "name" guy. (He's the guy who mixed Weezer's Blue Album for chrissakes! Bob Dylan's modern stuff, too.)
When I mix at home, I know I charge just $350 a song for self-financed projects (and less than that for albums and sparse material.) Compare something like that to the cost of halfway-decent mastering, and you're not talking about two different worlds when it comes to your budget. And whenever the mix isn't quite there yet, the impact from mixing is way more meaningful than mastering.
Mastering is something you do to tracks that already kick ass everywhere, just to be doubly sure that they'll kick ass everywhere.
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Justin Colletti
Audio Engineer, Journalist
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Last edited by fossiltooth on Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ChrisNW
gimme a little kick & snare
Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 90
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Mastering Engineer help? |
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Absolutely agree. Achieving a good, well balanced mix far outweighs the importance of high-end mastering. Once you are ready for mastering, find an ME who's able to spend the time to communicate with you about any issues best addressed in the mixing process. Critique is good. Just don't book your release show before the mastering session. 
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dennisjames
gettin' sounds
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chris harris
speech impediment
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palinilap
buyin' gear
Joined: 31 Jan 2007
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Location: Fort Wayne, IN
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:27 am Post subject: Re: Mastering Engineer help? |
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When my band worked with Carl Saff a few years ago (not the links in my signature) he mastered one song for free to give us an idea. Don't know if he would provide much mix advice, but a great ME for the cost.
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dennisjames
gettin' sounds
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MoreSpaceEcho
on a wing and a prayer
Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 5781
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Mastering Engineer help? |
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i'm happy to give mix feedback if people ask for it. most people don't. usually the folks who ask are the ones whose mixes sound really good...
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drumsound
TOMB Moderator
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
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Location: Bloomington IL
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Mastering Engineer help? |
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Nick and Justin gave great advice. My two favorite affordable MEs are also listed in this thread. They both are good with feedback and provide better service and quality than their prices might indicate.
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Tony
Oxide Lounge Recording
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SafeandSoundMastering
gettin' sounds
Joined: 02 Jun 2011
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Mastering Engineer help? |
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The mix is very important and I think you will find many mastering studios will provide some feedback on your mixes. I often do for my clients new and old. So much does depend on taste for mix downs but this is where it is actually very useful if the mastering engineer has actually had a lot of real world professional mixing experience. So many mastering engineers have just sprang up with seemingly no real audio engineering history, lol.
Before taking mix advice check what your mastering engineer has been doing in their career thus far.
SafeandSound Mastering
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cgarges
zen recordist
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