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ricercar.record
alignin' 24-trk
Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 69
Location: Austin, Tx
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 Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:49 am Post subject: processing acoustic guitar in a dense mix |
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| what's your general plan of attack for treating acoustic guitar tracks in a dense mix? feel free to discuss anything from mic selection, stereo/mono, panning, outboard gear for tracking, mix techniques, compression, etc? I would especially be interested in hearing what plugin EQ anyone is using to sculpt out the spot for the acoustic in a busy mix or make it sit just right to mold with the rest of the music. |
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Nick Sevilla
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Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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Location: Los Angeles California USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:21 am Post subject: Re: processing acoustic guitar in a dense mix |
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| ricercar.record wrote: | | what's your general plan of attack for treating acoustic guitar tracks in a dense mix? feel free to discuss anything from mic selection, stereo/mono, panning, outboard gear for tracking, mix techniques, compression, etc? I would especially be interested in hearing what plugin EQ anyone is using to sculpt out the spot for the acoustic in a busy mix or make it sit just right to mold with the rest of the music. |
Hi,
I've encountered this a few times before.
There are two considerations before deciding on a plan of attack.
One, how PROMINENT does,this acoustic guitar need to be in this particular mix? Is it a solo type feature? Is it a background rhythm?
Two, refer to number One, above.
Now, once you know,what role this Ac. Gtr. will have in the song, you can work it out pretty easily. And yes, it does help to know beforehand what each instrument's role will be in a particular arrangement, it saves a lot of time and hassle.
Now, to the techie side... I usually treat an Ac. gtr very differently according to it's role in the song and mix.
If it is going to be a prominent part of the mix, I treat it like a lead vocal. Meaning I give it the same sonic importance, allowing most of it's sound, dynamics, frequency spectrum etc to be heard in the mix. This means use of LESS Eq and more transparent compression, if needed. So in this case I choose cleaner less colored sounding EQs and compressors, so the sound remains more like the original recording. Just like I would do on a lead vocal.
If it is going to be a rhythm part, or something that is not important in the mix, then really, ANYTHING GOES. As long as this gtr does NOT get in the way of more important elements of the mix, then you can do pretty much whatever you damn well please with it, including muting it most of the way, if need be. Here, technically the sky is the limit. Go for it...
Cheers
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vvv
on a wing and a prayer
Joined: 13 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:27 am Post subject: Re: processing acoustic guitar in a dense mix |
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Assuming you mean a dense rock mix including elec. guitars, I tend to like to limit acoustic rhythms, and pass-filter the bejayzuss outta 'em.
Leads get treated like electric guitars (except with compression/limiting added), altho' I tend to use less delay.
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ricercar.record
alignin' 24-trk
Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 69
Location: Austin, Tx
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: processing acoustic guitar in a dense mix |
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| Nick Sevilla wrote: |
One, how PROMINENT does,this acoustic guitar need to be in this particular mix? Is it a solo type feature? Is it a background rhythm?
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Glad to hear this. Definitely reminds me of the first considerations I think about when starting. I mostly work with either singer/songwriter solo acoustic stuff, folk rock, etc. or varying genres of indie rock usually of the louder/more upbeat or aggressive variety, sometimes with denser arrangements including rhythm acoustic guitar stuff that's more to fill out the mix/add the percussive texture of acoustic strumming/or for some effect or short bridge or something.
So here's where I'm usually directing myself towards.....
If it's solo acoustic, fingerpicking or classical nylon string I'll usually either try a close mid-side setup or the eric valentine "over-under" thing to get a huge full stereo width acoustic guitar sound..... unless we're going for a more roomy or lofi sound then I may just throw up a large diaphragm condenser or tube mic a few feet away from the guitar aimed toward the 15th fret and compress with an la2a.
If it's acoustic folk stuff but with some more arrangement like drums and maybe some electric here and there, piano, harmonica, whatever, then I may do a single close small diaphragm condenser on the 15th fret or if I want a little width to it then I'll throw up a large diaphragm condenser with it, on the body of the acoustic.
However, in a dense mix with lots of instruments and loud electric guitars it seems like the best thing I've come up with is just a single close mic around 15th fret, and if it's rhythm chord strumming stuff to fill out a mix I'll more often than not double up the take and have them panned Left and Right.
| vvv wrote: | Assuming you mean a dense rock mix including elec. guitars, I tend to like to limit acoustic rhythms, and pass-filter the bejayzuss outta 'em.
Leads get treated like electric guitars (except with compression/limiting added), altho' I tend to use less delay. |
<br>
VVV, what plugins or hardware are you using for compression or limiting on your acoustics?... anything different as far as mic setup from what I've described?
and does anyone have a specific EQ plugin that they are always going back to for Acoustic Guitar? |
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vvv
on a wing and a prayer
Joined: 13 May 2003
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Location: Chi
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:20 am Post subject: Re: processing acoustic guitar in a dense mix |
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If it's a rock mix and the acoustic is prominent, I sometimes like a LDC; for me that's a AT4040 or a CAD M179 or mebbe a ADK A51V because I'm cheap and more lately into large dynamics, what I haven't much liked on acoustic guitars.
If the guitar is more a rhythmic thing, me, I like a SDC or even a dynamic - I think cheap old AKG's can be cool, almost pre-EQ'd.
Placement lately tends to be a cuppla feet straight out in front or slightly up, pointed at the XV or so. I mostly record me, so I'm usually sitting in my mixing chair using cans.
I tend to run thru whatever hardware compressor (if any) at minimal settings (RNC can be nice), and then try for a "transparent" software limiter.
If there's a acoustic lead, then I'll smash and effect it to my ex's house and back to keep it audible, otherwise I generally like just a touch of reverb after the limiter.
But now, ignore my amateur arse and pay a lot more heed to Mr. Sevilla's pro, eh ... ; he really knows this stuff! 
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SafeandSoundMastering
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Joined: 02 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:33 am Post subject: Re: processing acoustic guitar in a dense mix |
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Sounds like experimentation will be the way forward. No go to plugs really, just need to try various techniques until you hit the sound you want and the level of gelling in the mix or presence. Very difficult question to answer so much depend on accompanying instrumentation. If you have a specific problem Voxengo Soniformer can help if you have a troublesome tonal response.
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drumsound
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: processing acoustic guitar in a dense mix |
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If there's a full band type recording, drums, bass, electric guitars, keyboards, multiple vocals etc, I'm often making sure there isn't a lot going on in the low end, and that the highs poke through nicely. The AT Pro 37 kind of takes care of this for me. Maybe some compression, or maybe lots. If things are REALLY dense I'll go for a Nashville tuned/high strung guitar. No low end to get in the way then!
A flatter, more full range mic or mics may be used for solo recordings.
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A.David.MacKinnon
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:35 am Post subject: Re: processing acoustic guitar in a dense mix |
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| vvv wrote: |
If the guitar is more a rhythmic thing, me, I like a SDC or even a dynamic - I think cheap old AKG's can be cool, almost pre-EQ'd. |
There are a few cheap-o Audio Technica dynamic vocal mics that are great for this. I wish I could remember the model numbers. They're very peaky in the upper mids and have very little low end. On their own they sound like shit but I'll be damned if that acoustic doesn't sit perfectly in the mix.
For stuff where the acoustic is very prominent I've been leaning towards an AKG D224.
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Nick Sevilla
cryogenically thawing
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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Location: Los Angeles California USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:14 am Post subject: Re: processing acoustic guitar in a dense mix |
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| ricercar.record wrote: | | and does anyone have a specific EQ plugin that they are always going back to for Acoustic Guitar? |
I can't really tell you I have a favorite this or that. I can tell you what I think some plug ins do.
If you want a sharp edgy EQ that makes things sound pointy, use an API type EQ. This is a fast reacting EQ that allows most transients through without messing them up too much.
If you want a more round fat sound, use a Neve type EQ. These are a slower kind of processing, which smear the transients more, and also alter the phase relationships of all frequencies more than other EQs.
If you want a really clinical EQ that. Does not alter phase relationships, and also does not alter transients then you need to look at an EQ that states it is Phase Linear, or some such similar description.
If you want a gentle overall EQ that does broad (several octaves) general shaping, use a Pultec type EQ. These you can put on pretty massively, sound musical, because they only grab a large swath of the sound, and do not use any narrow band processing.
As to brands, well, look online, pretty much all companies have one or more of these type of EQs.
Cheers
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vvv
on a wing and a prayer
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:34 am Post subject: Re: processing acoustic guitar in a dense mix |
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| A.David.MacKinnon wrote: | | vvv wrote: |
If the guitar is more a rhythmic thing, me, I like a SDC or even a dynamic - I think cheap old AKG's can be cool, almost pre-EQ'd. |
There are a few cheap-o Audio Technica dynamic vocal mics that are great for this. I wish I could remember the model numbers. They're very peaky in the upper mids and have very little low end. On their own they sound like shit but I'll be damned if that acoustic doesn't sit perfectly in the mix.
For stuff where the acoustic is very prominent I've been leaning towards an AKG D224. |
Do you mean the Digital Reference mics? I actually have a cuppla them (like this) - I used to use 'em for Recorderman OH's and they weren't bad; p'rhaps I'll try 'em onna acoustic this weekend and post.
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Brett Siler
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:41 am Post subject: Re: processing acoustic guitar in a dense mix |
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I would start off with a bright sounding acoustic with a somewhat fresh set of bright strings. Then get a bright mic and really focus more on the attack or more percussive side of the guitar. Don't worry too much about the bass side in this scenario. You may need to high pass filter a decent amount. You may potentially need some compression. Just whatever works to get it to sit right.
The plug in I really like, I keep going back to is the Metric Halo Channel Strip. The EQ is really smooth. It is really good at musically boosting and cutting. The compression on it sounds great as well.
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mwerden
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: processing acoustic guitar in a dense mix |
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Subtle distortion can really help move the guitar out of the midrange. I use Massey Tapehead all the time, turn the gain all the way down and the trim all the way up and choose bright mode. There's also a plugin that comes with ProTools but the name escapes me at the moment. It has some more tweakable parameters.
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drumsound
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: processing acoustic guitar in a dense mix |
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| A.David.MacKinnon wrote: | | vvv wrote: |
If the guitar is more a rhythmic thing, me, I like a SDC or even a dynamic - I think cheap old AKG's can be cool, almost pre-EQ'd. |
There are a few cheap-o Audio Technica dynamic vocal mics that are great for this. I wish I could remember the model numbers. They're very peaky in the upper mids and have very little low end. On their own they sound like shit but I'll be damned if that acoustic doesn't sit perfectly in the mix.
For stuff where the acoustic is very prominent I've been leaning towards an AKG D224. |
The only thing I ever really liked the 4033 on was acoustic guitar.
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Oxide Lounge Recording
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losthighway
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: processing acoustic guitar in a dense mix |
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Sometimes using the mic I like less for acoustic guitar seats it better in a full mix.
I have overcompressed a beyerdynamic m201, or an EV re10, with some heavy cutting on the eq to get a real earthy acoustic guitar sound that is mostly high mids without a lot of sparkle. It can sound almost stylized by itself, but rule in the mix.
Obviously a full range sound is a different starting point. For something clean I usually like a Shure KSM141 pointed somewhere between the 12'th fret and where the neck meets the body (sometimes that's the same spot depending on the guitar). I get closer to the sound hole for more bass, and further up the fret board for thinner.
I used to automatically put a room mic up for acoustic, but these days it usually is not necessary. Especially in a busy mix.
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ricercar.record
alignin' 24-trk
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Location: Austin, Tx
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:45 am Post subject: Re: processing acoustic guitar in a dense mix |
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| thanks for all the thorough responses guys, I definitely have plenty of different techniques to try out now. if you got any more keep em coming! |
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