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boilermaker
audio school
Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Posts: 6
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:13 pm Post subject: TEAC 80-8 tape shedding |
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I bought a TEAC 80-8 1/2" 8 track about 4 years ago. I love how it sounds.
However, I have always had problems with tape shedding, especially during mixing when I'm winding back & forth a lot. At first I thought it was the notorious RMGI shedding issue, but I have since purchased a reel of ATR and it is just as bad.
I have to clean the transport constantly and a lot of oxide is caked on the capstan.
It has caused dropouts on a few occasions if I spend too long mixing a project.
There is not much significant wear to the guides, except one tiny ridge on the right lifter that I can feel with my fingernail a little.
I am about ready to start replacing parts in the tape path unless anyone has any other ideas.
Has anyone else had this issue and solved it?
Could it be any kind of guide/reel table alignment issue?
Also, keep in mind that I have used nothing but brand new tape on every occasion and clean & demagnetize regularly. |
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Nick Sevilla
cryogenically thawing
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 3670
Location: Los Angeles California USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: TEAC 80-8 tape shedding |
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| boilermaker wrote: | I bought a TEAC 80-8 1/2" 8 track about 4 years ago. I love how it sounds.
However, I have always had problems with tape shedding, especially during mixing when I'm winding back & forth a lot. At first I thought it was the notorious RMGI shedding issue, but I have since purchased a reel of ATR and it is just as bad.
I have to clean the transport constantly and a lot of oxide is caked on the capstan.
It has caused dropouts on a few occasions if I spend too long mixing a project.
There is not much significant wear to the guides, except one tiny ridge on the right lifter that I can feel with my fingernail a little.
I am about ready to start replacing parts in the tape path unless anyone has any other ideas.
Has anyone else had this issue and solved it?
Could it be any kind of guide/reel table alignment issue?
Also, keep in mind that I have used nothing but brand new tape on every occasion and clean & demagnetize regularly. |
Hi,
If this ATR tape was brand new and it shedded immediately, I would suspect the tape path.
Have you inspected the WHOLE tape path?
Does the tape itself shed more on one edge than another?
Does it shed when FF / REW also, not just on playback?
That "tiny ridge", does it go all the way from the top to the bottom of that lifter arm? Does it contact the tape? That would be the likely culprit.
Typically, with nonmoving steel lifters and guides, they wear out after a while, so it becomes necessary to rotate them slightly so they present a nice even smooth surface to the tape itself, since they contact the tape all the time and cause considerable friction.
If you suspect the tape, you can bake it, search around for how to do it online, there are several good resources out there and most are accurate.
However if after baking it is exactly the same, then either you are incredibly unlucky and have two shitty reels of tape, or more likely it is the tape path.
Cheers
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The Song. Nothing else really matters. |
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Matt C.
steve albini likes it
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Posts: 315
Location: saint paul, mn
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: TEAC 80-8 tape shedding |
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it's probably something in the tape path, but I have had several bad reels of ATR tape that had this same problem, so I wouldn't completely rule out that possibility.
Also worth noting that, as Nick said, some of the guides and stuff in the tape path can sometimes just be rotated (instead of completely replaced) so the tape is no longer contacting the worn part.
if that ridge you're feeling is only on the lifter, not on a guide, I would expect you'd only have this problem in FF/RW, not regular speed playback. |
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boilermaker
audio school
Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Posts: 6
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: TEAC 80-8 tape shedding |
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I've ruled out tape being the cause. I've used 7-10 new reels of RMGI 911
And 1 new reel of ATR and all have shedded. It seems worse when I'm doing a lot of fast wind. The machine sits upright on a table and most of the flakes/dust collects below the right side if the transport on the table. The spot I could feel on the lifter is wear from the edge if the tape. I don't know if its possible to rotate these, they seem fixed into place. Also, the 2 guide posts have a notch in them so they can't just be loosened and turned, unless I can cut a new notch somehow. If anyone knows a way around this let me know.
It might save me from buying parts. |
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Nick Sevilla
cryogenically thawing
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 3670
Location: Los Angeles California USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: TEAC 80-8 tape shedding |
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| boilermaker wrote: | I've ruled out tape being the cause. I've used 7-10 new reels of RMGI 911
And 1 new reel of ATR and all have shedded. It seems worse when I'm doing a lot of fast wind. The machine sits upright on a table and most of the flakes/dust collects below the right side if the transport on the table. The spot I could feel on the lifter is wear from the edge if the tape. I don't know if its possible to rotate these, they seem fixed into place. Also, the 2 guide posts have a notch in them so they can't just be loosened and turned, unless I can cut a new notch somehow. If anyone knows a way around this let me know.
It might save me from buying parts. |
First : STOP playing tape on the machine. You will destroy your tapes if you continue!!! I cannot stress this enough.
Second : Find a competent tech to fix it. ASAP.
Cheers
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The Song. Nothing else really matters. |
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boilermaker
audio school
Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Posts: 6
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: TEAC 80-8 tape shedding |
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First : STOP playing tape on the machine. You will destroy your tapes if you continue!!! I cannot stress this enough.
Second : Find a competent tech to fix it. ASAP.
Cheers |
Don't worry, i haven't been playing tapes anymore and this machine sadly sits and collects dust. I have to fix it or throw it off a bridge. The only tech I know is like $90 an hour so I'm trying to solve the problem myself first if possible. Plus, I can get another one of these or a tascam 38 for like $500 tops.
Anyone know about rotating these parts on an 80-8?
Also, I re-examined the transport with a flashlight and i can see some edge wear marks on the guide posts a bit too. If I can get clear pictures I will post them.
Clayton |
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Nick Sevilla
cryogenically thawing
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 3670
Location: Los Angeles California USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:16 am Post subject: Re: TEAC 80-8 tape shedding |
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| boilermaker wrote: | | Quote: |
First : STOP playing tape on the machine. You will destroy your tapes if you continue!!! I cannot stress this enough.
Second : Find a competent tech to fix it. ASAP.
Cheers |
Don't worry, i haven't been playing tapes anymore and this machine sadly sits and collects dust. I have to fix it or throw it off a bridge. The only tech I know is like $90 an hour so I'm trying to solve the problem myself first if possible. Plus, I can get another one of these or a tascam 38 for like $500 tops.
Anyone know about rotating these parts on an 80-8?
Also, I re-examined the transport with a flashlight and i can see some edge wear marks on the guide posts a bit too. If I can get clear pictures I will post them.
Clayton |
Well I guess then you could find another one, or the parts to replace which are worn.
Cheers
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E.Bennett
re-cappin' neve
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 611
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:00 am Post subject: Re: TEAC 80-8 tape shedding |
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Is this a tape width issue? The tape you are using might be slightly wider than the tape that was used to wear in the tape path. Try rewinding and fastforwarding 4 times on an unused reel of tape or a tape you don't care about. Clean the tape path. Now use the machine. If it runs clean, it is probably a slit issue and will resolve after the tape path wears a bit.
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boilermaker
audio school
Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Posts: 6
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: TEAC 80-8 tape shedding |
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| E.Bennett wrote: | | Is this a tape width issue? The tape you are using might be slightly wider than the tape that was used to wear in the tape path. Try rewinding and fastforwarding 4 times on an unused reel of tape or a tape you don't care about. Clean the tape path. Now use the machine. If it runs clean, it is probably a slit issue and will resolve after the tape path wears a bit. |
The previous owner included 2 reels of NOS Ampex 456 when I bought the deck so that must be what tape he used. If that is narrower than Rmgi & ATR, than that could be the cause. I never used the Ampex because I was weary of using old tape.
I've read mixed reviews about rotating lifters that are pressed into place. Have any of you successfully pulled this off before?
Coincidently, i scored a complete head assembly on ebay today for pretty cheap so hopefully the guide posts are as good as the picture looked. The heads looked pretty dirty in the picture so I couldn't see what the wear looked like. My heads are pretty good but it's nice to have a spare set. |
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E.Bennett
re-cappin' neve
Joined: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 611
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:20 am Post subject: Re: TEAC 80-8 tape shedding |
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When I switched from 456 to rmg 911, I had a similar issue. I would run each tape from end to end several times before using it. It didn't take long for the issue to resolve without rotating guides.
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boilermaker
audio school
Joined: 16 Jul 2011
Posts: 6
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: TEAC 80-8 tape shedding |
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Out of curiosity, how does the TSR 8 differ (sound wise) from the 80-8 other than being a newer machine and having built in noise reduction?
One just showed up for $250 on my local Craigslist. Although my wife will kill me if I spend the money and end up with another lemon.
I tried a few more things on the weekend. I was able to rotate the guide post on the right tension arm a bit since most of the oxide dust falls beneath that area. I also tried a trick I've read about where people slide straws over the lifters. Tape still shedded.
Last night I figured out how to rotate the guide posts but this involved removing the head assembly and loosening them from behind.
Hopefully tonight I will have time to give everything a good cleaning and try a reel of tape again. |
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Blue Jinn
audio school
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 7
Location: see homerecording.com bbs
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: TEAC 80-8 tape shedding |
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| I don't have either deck, but the one that came in between the 38, and am pretty happy with it. I also have a MSR-16 whcih is the same "series" as the TSR-8. I haven't had occasion to really put it through it's paces, but it's a nice machine. Note that ATR tape is pretty thick, (2mil) and your 80-8 is likely designed for 456 type tape. (1.5) also, in case you weren't aware, most "Ampex" branded 456 (and 406) unless it is really new (1995 or later) has "sticky shed" it is a chemical breakdown of the binder material. Ampex 499 is OK, it's a different formula, but also requires higher bias. |
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