Mixing live vocals with almost more spill than singing...

[James B]

Hello Tape Op, it's been a while since I've posted here (it's been a while since I've been involved with any music, actually).

I'm looking for a little advice. A friend records live sessions for an online radio station and I'm mixing one for him as he's too busy with the day job. The issue is that the vocal tracks have so much spill from the drums and amps on them that they're adding this horrible high end tinniness during any vocals sections.

I've attempted to EQ out the high end but that's pretty detrimental to the already poor vocal takes. Could some kind of multi-band compression be of use? Maybe compressing the upper mids but leaving the highs uncompressed? What would you do in this situation?

I'm also torn between leaving the vocal tracks unmuted all the way through the song just so that the shittiness of it is at least uniform or alternating between passable during the instrumental passages and noticeably inferior when there is singing.

Obviously prevention is better than the cure but it's a bit late for that. I'm a massive hypocrite for saying this, but sometimes I wish indie bands wouldn't mumble so much...

[Nick Sevilla]

Hi,
I would leave the vocal mic on all the time.
If at all possible, only EQ the top end off.
So, it sounds like shit Too bad.
You might tell your friend to consider doing something in the
future about that.
It seems using a more hypercardioid mic on the singers might help.

Instead of going crazy, just do the best you can.

Cheers
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The Song. Nothing else really matters.

[vvv]

One approach might be to mute where there's no vocals, then EQ out the tinniness where there is, such that the vocals are probably indiscernable, but present as all low midrange.

A more time-consuming and difficult approach might be to just mute where there's no actual words, including in-between 'em, such that it sounds like there's a gate to a crappy mic - I'm guessing the vocal level is so low you can't use a actual gate, so you'll have to do that inna DAW using "silence" or whatever.

Some combo of the above two might be a improvement, especially with the judicious use of compression, ex., mute the non-vocal parts and pass filter the vocal sections to all midrange, then add the compressed, "gated" vocals in parallel ...

But really, what Nick said.
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vlayman; THD; blog; TFP

[kslight]

Using an expander on parts and/or muting the track when there are no words, and roll off some of that ugly top end. Really all you can do, outside of re-recording it. I face this a bit, I do live concerts and there can be issues like this...but there's only one instance to where I really thought it was unacceptable, and that was because the singer brought a Shure 55...which is a lot better "everything" mic than vocal mic when on stage....on top of poor technique where he wasn't always close enough to it to get picked up.

You say you're mixing one for a friend because he's too busy, so I'm assuming he usually mixes these sessions? Ask him for pointers, there's no shame in asking for help when its something you haven't experienced before.

[Snarl 12/8]

Deja Vu - http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=80993
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Carl Keil

[James B]

Thanks for the advice, seems like I'm caught between settling for an indistinct mid-rangey vocal or living with the bleed. Oh well, it's a shame that I'll be partially judged by whoever hears this as this could be a decent source of future work.

As an aside, are there any low/mid priced mics that might be particularly useful in this situation? I may be tracking a few similar sessions soon and I would like it to come out a little better than this.

[farview]

This is one of the major reasons that most major label live albums are overdubbed in the studio. Same with live videos.

The only other thing I can thin of, besides everything mentioned already, would be to mix it the way it was probably heard in the venue...with the vocals so low that you just get the impression that they are there, instead of them sitting on top.
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Jay Walsh
Farview Recording and Farview Audio

[ashcat_lt]

Is there a shit ton of compression on that vocal mic, such that the rest of the band is pushed way down while singing and then comes up in between? How does the band sound overall with that mic soloed? Maybe you could use it as the main bulk of the sound and use the other tracks sparingly to fill it out?

Also, it's likely that at least part of what sucks about the bleed is the phase cancellation between it and the rest of the tracks. A bit of time spent flipping polarity button and/or nudging or delaying the various tracks could make quite a difference.
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it only hurts if you let it...

[Chris_Avakian]

have you tried an sm58?

[farview]

[James B]

Presumably it was a SM58 that was used in the recording, possibly a SM57, I didn't ask. I think the problems are mostly related to thoughtless positioning of the musicians combined with poor mic technique/ a simple lack of volume from the singer.

Thanks for the suggestion of slightly delaying the track to alter the phase, I hadn't thought of that one, I'll try it out when I eventually get back to these tracks.

[mn412]

If it were me I would solo the vocal mic eq and compress etc.. to sound as good as you possibly can (what ever that takes). Then add the other elements in around it. The bleed is there don't try and fight it embrace it.

[floid]

getting phase right can help, but if it's a handheld mic yer pretty SOL. Hyperactive singers with questionable technique have been my nightmare in the past: fist pumping, my god.
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noid and lousy

[DCT3]

Try cutting the highs on everything except the vocals, leave the vocals in the mix the whole time (don't gate them) and let the extra highs on the vocals make up for what you cut from everything else that was spilling into the vocal mic. It's a balancing act and it's not perfect but it may get you where you want to go. Pretty much what mn412 said, the bleed is there, embrace it.