Where to draw the line

Qlevel · audio school graduate Joined: 01 Mar 2011 Posts: 10

So a while back, a friend (let's call him Ben) asked me if I wouldn't mind recording a friend of his for free (let's call her Sarah). He said that he wanted to surprise Sarah with a professional demo and that it would be her first opportunity to record for real. I felt like declining and explaining that I don't do this for a living and that my time is limited and so on, but I wanted to do the nice thing and kind of owed him a favor. So, Ben and Sarah came over, recorded a scratch track, and pretty much gave me free reign to build a production around the song as I saw fit. In the coming weeks, I took a liking to the song and put a lot of effort into giving it my best work. Sarah didn't give me much to go by as far as what direction she wanted the song to go in, but the melody was pop-rock and her voice was country-tinged, so I kind of guided it somewhere in between that. I was really happy with the result and sent off a rough mix to Ben and Sarah.

A few days ago, Ben sends me a text saying that Sarah wasn't happy with the production and that they'd like to come over and tweak the mix along with this other dude that I don't know (let's call him Chris). He said it sounded too "techno". I found this to be a little insulting, but whatever. I was mr. nice guy and said no problem. I had added a few pop clichés to the song just in case she was looking for a more modern sound, but removed them as soon as I got the text. They then came over and immediately began pointing out things that they wanted changed, mostly Ben. Turn down the snare reverb, get rid of that slide guitar I spent hours on, replace that keyboardy-thing floating over the chorus with an electric guitar, etc. Not even in an organized manner. They kept making suggestions and talking over each other while I was trying to concentrate. Sarah was kind of shy about it and would whisper what she thought to Ben, then Ben would give orders about "what her song really needs". Meanwhile, Chris paced around the studio pointing out models of gear he recognized and noodled around on all my vintage guitars. He was mostly there to just check out the studio.

I knew that they didn't have much studio experience and probably didn't understand the amount of work it took to fulfill each of their requests, so I cut them a break and tried not to take the session too seriously. After all, I'm working for free, so they should be happy with whatever comes out in the end, right? Ben stepped out for a while and then I tried to get to the bottom of what Sarah really wanted. She said that her talent agent, vocal coach, guitar instructor, connection who's supposedly mr. big in the music industry, hairdresser, etc all listened to the rough mix and had a million things they wanted changed and that she was worried she couldn't remember everything. When I asked her what kind of sound SHE wanted to go for, she asked for the opinion of Ben and Chris. It's obvious that she's being puppeted by a lot of folks and doesn't have much sense of self as an artist. In a way, I kind of feel sorry for her, but I'm also tempted to quit this drama and tell her agents to pay for their favorite producer if they've got a beef.

Nonetheless, I'm a nice guy and want to finish what I started. I scheduled her next session in about two weeks to give Sarah and Co. time to sort it all out. I'm just trying to decide how to proceed. Maybe I should tell her that I have to start charging if this is going to be more than just a for-fun demo? Maybe I should tell Ben and Chris to take a hike? What would you do?

rockstudio · Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:16 am Post subject: Re: Where to draw the line

At this point, you've already had her into your studio twice. I'd say you have fulfilled your favor to your friend. Instead of scheduling another session, this is what I'd do: print a .wav of her vocal and guitar or whatever she recorded as a scratch, note the tempo of the song, put the files on a disc and hand it over to her and say goodbye. This sort of thing happens way too often.

Nick Sevilla · Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:28 am Post subject: Re: Where to draw the line

**cgarges** · Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:32 am Post subject: Re: Where to draw the line

Gregg Juke · Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:28 am Post subject: Re: Where to draw the line

Everything that was said above is accurate and true, and is probably what you should do (end it).

BUT-- If you find that you like Sarah, and her song(s), and have a burn to finish what you started, I would suggest a private meeting (or at least a phone conversation) with her. I would explain everything as honestly as you did here with us, but I'd also be patient and polite. I'd explain all of the possible options for proceeding-- 1) cutting both of your loses and bailing, 2) moving forward with you as an engineer only (paid; this presupposes that she will get another producer with experience involved who is not Ben or Chris, or a hairdresser, or a Non-existent Un-named Major Industry Mogul [tm] ) 3) moving forward with you as producer (paid), or 4) either one of those options unpaid if you are so inclined. I'd tell her that to finish her project, she needs some kind of vision, that writing, producing, arranging, and mixing by committee generally doesn't work, and especially when the committee is just a sea of faceless nameless nobody-that-you-knows'... I'd tell her that under no circumstances are Ben and Chris going to be helpful to you if you're involved. And even if you don't take some kind of hourly or per-project pay, I'd try to work out some kind of production agreement/points/back-end deal, etc.

As Chris G. pointed out, if there is no value attached to your time, and there is no structure to your agreement or plan for the sessions, you will continue to be taken advantage of. I would also say that any scenario above that would include you as a producer or engineer would really benefit from some solid pre-production meetings (what does she want to sound like? who are her influences? what records would be your benchmarks/references? what genre does _she_ think her music is in? etc., etc.)...

GJ

joelpatterson · Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:51 am Post subject: Re: Where to draw the line

Smitty · Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Where to draw the line

Greener · studio intern Joined: 17 Sep 2012 Posts: 27

Lines technically have no end and are impossible to draw... I don't care who you are if you want to prove me wrong enjoy yourself...

What we need to focus on is segments.

joelpatterson · Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Where to draw the line

Greener · studio intern Joined: 17 Sep 2012 Posts: 27

Bland Sauce.

Mix one cup bland with four cups of fruit...

Stir fruits and sauce together and viola... Some bland fucking sauce.

MoreSpaceEcho · on a wing and a prayer Joined: 07 May 2003 Posts: 5780

greener.

that shit is fucking up the page and making it unreadable. please fix it.
_________________
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Snarl 12/8 · Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:56 am Post subject: Re: Where to draw the line

Greener · studio intern Joined: 17 Sep 2012 Posts: 27

[quote="Snarl 12/8"][quote="MoreSpaceEcho"]greener.

that shit is fucking up the page and making it unreadable. please fix it.[/quote]

Dude. The troll has been fed. I think we can expect at least a fortnight more of these anti-social, drug addled non sequiturs.[/quote]

At this point in time even you have to pay me for my opinions...

teleharmonium · Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Where to draw the line

My standard response is that people do not respect that which they do not pay for, and there is no end to the egomania that exists at the bottom of the talent food chain.

No matter what is said at the beginning nor how long you have known them, once people see that attention is being paid to them and hear themselves coming out of the speakers, your relationship with them is just one of the first casualties of their ballooning narcissism. At this point they are in need of some painful lessons and my preference is that they learn them on their own time.

Don't make the common mistakes of assuming that their deranged expectations and escalating demands are somehow the fault of your communication skills, or that they will quickly subside and you will end up with grateful, happy friends who will cherish your generosity. How many grateful, happy people can you recall who just finished their first studio recording ?
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Greener · studio intern Joined: 17 Sep 2012 Posts: 27

[quote="teleharmonium"]My standard response is that people do not respect that which they do not pay for, and there is no end to the egomania that exists at the bottom of the talent food chain.

No matter what is said at the beginning nor how long you have known them, once people see that attention is being paid to them and hear themselves coming out of the speakers, your relationship with them is just one of the first casualties of their ballooning narcissism. At this point they are in need of some painful lessons and my preference is that they learn them on their own time.

Don't make the common mistakes of assuming that their deranged expectations and escalating demands are somehow the fault of your communication skills, or that they will quickly subside and you will end up with grateful, happy friends who will cherish your generosity. How many grateful, happy people can you recall who just finished their first studio recording ?[/quote]

A response judged by what you've said would be to say every person I've helped make that first studio recording is a friend...

A lot of my customers are friends too, some are special. Some are fucking retarded...

My standard response is to ask how you intend on paying for something you want then take it from there... What do you want?

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