Recording a live session in one room

[James B]

I've got involved with a small radio station who create a syndicated online show. They get bands in when they're touring through my city to do live sessions (live recording, not live broadcast).

It's my first time tracking for them but I'm told that I'll be pressed for time, the band will get in at lunch time, set up and want to be on their way by 4pm or so. Obviously I'm not going to have time to experiment with different mics or unusual placements or anything like that, so I was wondering if anyone had any general tips for this sort of thing?

There will be three guitar amps, a bass amp, drums and vocals all in one (reasonably large) live room so the lack of isolation will be a big issue. I'm trying to think of the best way to place the amps to keep things relatively separate. I guess facing them away from the drums and quite far from them would be a start. There's a frustrating lack of baffles in there which makes things more difficult.

At present I'm basically planning to put a stereo pair above the drums plus an Audix D6 on the kick and an SM57 on the snare. sm57s on the guitar cabs, D6 or DI the bass. Is it even worth trying a condenser on the vocals or will the spill just be too much? I'll be using an SE Reflexion filter to try and isolate it as much as possible. All pretty unimaginative stuff but I'm thinking that I'm better off sticking with the tried and tested given the shortage of time.

I should add that the band are an indie-pop/ slightly shoegaze (but on the quiet side) type band so I'm hoping that they'll be alright with keeping their amps at sensible volumes...

(Sorry for the multiple postings, my connection is being weird I think)

[cgarges]

The closer you can put things together, the less distant they'll all sound. There's going to be bleed no matter what, so if you have things farther apart, the bleed is going to sound farther away. Having things closer together can help this. The idea is to make the bleed sound as good as possible, with everything working together, as opposed to treating them like a bunch of separate elements.

One thing that you can do is to try to select mics based on practical applications, and maybe not so much what usually sounds best on a given instrument as a first priority. Like, a mic that sounds great on an isolated source, but has a terrible off-axis sound would be a less-than-ideal choice in this instance. Mics that sound good far away AND close-up might be a better solution for helping the ambient sound. Mics with good rejection can be used on quieter sources (like vocals), and placed close-up. With mics like these, I usually position them with the null in mind, and not with the full-on frontal pickup pattern in mind. For instance, if I'm using a figure eight mic, which usually has pretty good rejection at the sides, but not so much at the back, I'll put whatever I'm trying to keep out of if to the side of the mic and not behind it. Hypercardioid mics (or super-cardioid or whatever) usually have better rejection to the sides of the back of the mic than directly behind them, so I'll keep this in mind when placing things near them, as well.

Basically, if you set up your mics and then place everything that you want to keep out of a particular mic in the null point of the mics, you'll be off to a good starting point. I know this seems counterintuitive when you're used to positioning musicians and then miking them, but working this kind of "backwards" way can have its rewards in this type of scenario.

Similarly, most amps are somewhat directional, as well. Keep this in mind when the band is loading in. Are they using open-back amps or closed-back amps? Making a note of this can be helpful in deciding where you put them. Also, most amps are considerably quieter to the sides than in front or behind. This can be helpful in reducing bleed, although it can also make them more difficult to hear, acoustically, if the band is relying on the sound in the room to hear themselves. (If they're wearing headphones, this probably won't be a problem.)

Hope this helps!

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
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[cgarges]

The closer you can put things together, the less distant they'll all sound. There's going to be bleed no matter what, so if you have things farther apart, the bleed is going to sound farther away. Having things closer together can help this. The idea is to make the bleed sound as good as possible, with everything working together, as opposed to treating them like a bunch of separate elements.

One thing that you can do is to try to select mics based on practical applications, and maybe not so much what usually sounds best on a given instrument as a first priority. Like, a mic that sounds great on an isolated source, but has a terrible off-axis sound would be a less-than-ideal choice in this instance. Mics that sound good far away AND close-up might be a better solution for helping the ambient sound. Mics with good rejection can be used on quieter sources (like vocals), and placed close-up. With mics like these, I usually position them with the null in mind, and not with the full-on frontal pickup pattern in mind. For instance, if I'm using a figure eight mic, which usually has pretty good rejection at the sides, but not so much at the back, I'll put whatever I'm trying to keep out of if to the side of the mic and not behind it. Hypercardioid mics (or super-cardioid or whatever) usually have better rejection to the sides of the back of the mic than directly behind them, so I'll keep this in mind when placing things near them, as well.

Basically, if you set up your mics and then place everything that you want to keep out of a particular mic in the null point of the mics, you'll be off to a good starting point. I know this seems counterintuitive when you're used to positioning musicians and then miking them, but working this kind of "backwards" way can have its rewards in this type of scenario.

Similarly, most amps are somewhat directional, as well. Keep this in mind when the band is loading in. Are they using open-back amps or closed-back amps? Making a note of this can be helpful in deciding where you put them. Also, most amps are considerably quieter to the sides than in front or behind. This can be helpful in reducing bleed, although it can also make them more difficult to hear, acoustically, if the band is relying on the sound in the room to hear themselves. (If they're wearing headphones, this probably won't be a problem.)

Hope this helps!

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
_________________
www.chrisgarges.com
www.oldhousestudio.com
Bunky Moon, The Public Good
Playing drums with Mitch Easter

[jhharvest]

On gigs like this I've mostly had issues with spill when micing acoustic instruments (violins, flutes: you know those quiet wimpy ones) and drum overheads. For the prior there's not a whole lot that can be done except clever placement and sometimes mic choice. Lucky you aren't having any of these.

For the latter I've had pretty good luck with "underheads" because you can get that extra bit closer to the set. This also helps the set look nice, if they are videoing it. However the sound is different. I have sometimes used the underheads in figure of 8 to capture both the cymbal and the drum underneath it but that requires very careful positioning because effectively you can't alter the balance afterwards. Glyn Johns or Recorderman or other closer up drum micing techniques can also work to your benefit so I'd kind of recommend those rather than traditional overheads.

Then of course if the drummer is a basher all is lost...

[drumsound]

Both posts are chock full of good information.

I'll add that a mono overhead may make your life easier, or maybe even just a mic over the BD pointed at the snare. like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS_YZpn818A
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Oxide Lounge Recording
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WWRTBD?

[drumsound]

Both posts are chock full of good information.

I'll add that a mono overhead may make your life easier, or maybe even just a mic over the BD pointed at the snare. like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS_YZpn818A
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Tony
Oxide Lounge Recording
Follow me on TWITTER!

WWRTBD?

[JWL]

Agreed, great stuff so far.

The mic nulls are your friend, use them.

One of my favorite techniques is to set the band up in a circle, with gobos between them (like spokes in a wheel), and a stereo pair (like a blumlein) in the center to get a good overall performance capture.
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[fossiltooth]

I did some of these for BreakThru Radio a while back, and I still do them a bunch for WFMU.

Basically, i set everything up like it's kind of a minimalist recording session or a live show and just do it. If the band is good and you're good it's not too tough.

Just try to make it so that the amps aren't insanely loud and the singer can hear him/herself well through the monitors. Otherwise, it's pretty straightforward stuff.

Circular setups can be helpful if the band likes playing that way. When amps face drum sets, I find that there's often less bleed in both sources that way.

But some bleed is your friend. Don't sweat it unless it sounds band. And you don't have to worry about bleed messing up your overdubs, 'cause, well, there aren't any.

If it's all in one room and the band is loud, I'd probably go for a dynamic mic on the vocals. And again: Keeping amp volumes reasonably loud instead of insanely loud is generally a good thing.
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[A.David.MacKinnon]

Another method that can work well is to set the band up as you would on stage. Put the amps in a line parallel with the front of the kick. Have the vocalists face the band so spill from the band is directed towards the null of the vocal mic.
If you've got anything that can act as a gobo (office dividers, couch cushions, packing blankets draped over boom stands) it can help to baffle the back of the amps. Also work hard to keep the volume of the bass amp in check. Guitar amps are very directional but bass goes everywhere.
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[tonewoods]

[Brett Siler]

[A.David.MacKinnon]

[Brett Siler]

Raw Power is such a gnarly record! I actually love the way it sounds. It's so fucked up that it is great.

To add to what I was saying early even though the hi hat goes everywhere in my room, surprisingly micing the hihat helps quite a bit. I can control the imaging in the stereo field during mix time a lot better by doing so; even when it is usually turned down quite a bit in the mix.
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[Jon Nolan]

oops...double post...
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[Jon Nolan]

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[Brett Siler]

Nice pic! Are those ribbons on overheads? I've wondered about figure 8's but have been afraid that their would be too much bleed in them, so I have stuck to cardiods.
_________________
My musical endeavors!

Label: http://www.dyspepsidisc.com/
Band: http://www.stationaryodyssey.com
Studio:Mother Brain Sound Infrastructure

[Jon Nolan]