Tchad Blake Mono Kit Mic: 441 Alternative

[cjac9]

I'm wanting to do that Tchad Blake 441 -> Level-Loc thing. I know he uses the 441 because it has a fair amount of proximity and it's super-cardioid.

Anyone know of some less expensive alternatives to the 441 ($900)? Preferably in the $100-$200 range.

Thanks!

C

[jgimbel]

I don't have a good suggestion for an alternative, but just wanted to mention since I've had a 441 on my list for a while I've found that for some reason 441s not just often but USUALLY go for about half price on ebay. There are a bunch on there right now buy-it-now for $400-500. I was amazed with how expensive they are new but really surprised to see the standard price they go for used. Just wanted to mention that, maybe they're more attainable than you were thinking. And since they're dynamics, and Sennheiser dynamics at that, I'm not quite as concerned about functioning issues buying one on ebay.
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[cjac9]

@jgimbel - thanks for the heads up. That's still pretty pricey for me at the moment. Hoping for an alternative in the $100-$200 range.

I'd love to have one someday. I can think of one female vocalist I work with that it would probably shine on. (Read: Stevie Nicks-esque tone.)

[Nick Sevilla]

Use what you have.

If you have a DAW, do the following:

Split the mono mic signal from the drumkit into 4 identical tracks:

1. The original unaffected track. Keep this one with no processing.

2. A track for the low end only. Use a lowpass filter to remove everything above 100-120Hz.

3. A track for the midrange only. Use a bandpass filter to remove everything below 100-120Hz. and above 3kHz.

4. A track for the top end only. Use a hipass filter to remove everything below 3kHz.

Then, as you listen to the ORIGINAL track, you can decide what is missing from it for your mix. Then unmute the track that has the missing stuff, and process that track with EQ and compression if needed to get the stuff you need more in the mix.

I am not a fan of multiband compressors, that is why I'd rather use three separate tracks. You can get more specific or complicated by making more tracks and narrowing each one with smaller bandpass filters.

Cheers
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[cjac9]

@Nick Sevilla. This is essentially what I've been doing up until this point and it definitely goes a long way.

The reason I want to track the sound is two-fold. Firstly, I want the drummer to react and play into any compression on the kit. I've found that when musicians play into compression (especially vocalists and drummers) it's a much different result than slapping it on after the fact. The compression becomes a dynamic part of the instrument. Much like guitarists playing into tube amps vs. playing into a D.I w/o hearing an amp and then trying to reamp to get that player/amp relationship back. Secondly, I'm trying to minimize the strain I have to put on my CPU. The more I can get happening in front of the converters the better! That way when I get to mix it's just a sprinkling of light comp and EQ.

I'm wondering if a Beta 56 or 57 would be good for this purpose. Maybe a 609? Those are all supercardioid dynamics. Any thoughts? What are you guys using?

[vvv]

FWIW, and slightly OT, what Nick gives such a great description of is what I often do with stereo drum tracks when I get them to mix. I then might just beef up a kick (sometimes sliding the track), or use the EQ-isolated snare to trigger a plate. It's like a more mechanical way of using multi-band compression, or in the latter example side-band compression, and can give a lot more control.

FWIW no.2, and more OT, I like a ribbon FOK or room mic to so smash, but that's obviously not even close to what TB is apparently doing. I have also used a 57, a 635a, a RE10/PL5, a D1000 and a Beta 58. The dynamic mic's are often really the vocal mic, not sung into, and often off-axis and thus randumbly placed vis-a-vis the drums, but can sound cool.
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[Gregg Juke]

Too bad you're so far away. I've got a 441 and I'd be glad to loan it (but not to Texas)...

Can you rent one from anywhere nearby? Austin?

I'm pretty sure you could rent from Blackbird in Nashville, but I have no idea what the cost and shipping would run. Less than a purchase, I'm sure.

GJ

[cjac9]

Gregg,
Thanks for the offer! I can get one from Rock 'N' Roll Rentals in Austin if I need to. Just emailed John Vanderslice for advice. He owns a 441 and frequently uses this technique. He calls it the "wild card" mic. His prefers an SM58 over the 441 for his "wild card" duties. Guess I'll try that out and see what I think. I'm hoping I like it as it will save me some serious cash! If I like the tone but need more directionality I can always snag a Beta 58 and get back to rockin'!

C

[joninc]

beyer m201. i swap that and my 441 back and forth from this position and snare all the time. hyper card too.
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[cjac9]

@joninc thanks for the tip. I'll check it out!

[telepathy]

not specifically involving the Tchad Blake technique, but in terms of having a kit "wild card" mic, I love the EV 635a or other dynamic omnis with my Level-Loc. up above the overheads, or out in front about three feet from the kick. also sometimes high enough to catch reflection from the ceiling. 58-style dynamics also do just fine in this application. try any of the Shure Betas if you have one available.
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[dgrieser]

Thanks for this tip!

[ott0bot]

I would highly recommend an electro voice pl/re11 for this kind of set up. I frequently use the pl 11 with super pretty heavy compression from a tla-50 while tracking vox, and a drum room mics. very vintage 70's sounding, midrange heavy, and focused sound. kinda dirty, but not overly so. I picked a well worn pair of them locally for 45 bucks.
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[losthighway]

Yeah 441's are really cool, but not essential for such a distinctive approach to the drum set. The intense compression and the way the drummer plays probably has more to do with "that sound". I have used a lot of the more affordable mics suggested in front of the kit. I'll second the m201 and re10 recommendations. Those are a couple of mics you can get a ton of use out of.
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[fossiltooth]