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joninc
george martin
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: canada
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 Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: space echo hell |
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got the new tape from 201loops today and came with pretty good little write up about maintenance for space echos etc...
one of the things he recommends is putting in the tape and letting it run for about an hour to let the tape naturally find its grooves a bit etc..
so i load the new tape on and after about a minute i hear a squeaking sound that i hadn't heard before...
i inspect and seems that the pinch roller is making the sound and occasionally stopping.
this seems new - hadn't seen that issue with the other tapes.
(BTW i took the screw out of the pinch roller and opened it up to take a look in case it was all gummy behind there etc.. looks fine)
i can only get the screechy sound to stop when i take all the tension off the other side on the spring/felt thing that the tape runs through right before it goes to the heads.
i wonder if the felt on that part maybe worn out and causing too much tension there??
I JUST WANT IT TO WORK. crap.
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Darlington Pair
gettin' sounds
Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 120
Location: Staunton, VA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: space echo hell |
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Welcome to space echoes 
Personally, I would use soap and water to clean the roller, give it a good scrubbing (not hard enough to scratch it) because the lubricant from the tape will get on it and make it not grip the capstan properly. Also, make sure it's not hard, if it is Terry's Rubber Rollers has replacements. I would also use some Re-Grip, but not too much because you can make the thing so sticky that the tape will stick to it.
Use some sort of lubricant that won't creep out while it's spinning to put it back on.
If it's still happening after that then there are a number of places that you can take the tension off the tape. All those adjustments are in the service manual that is just a google search away.
Good Luck!!
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joninc
george martin
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: space echo hell |
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the saga continues....
i did some greasing of the pinch roller and loosened the screws on the felt tensioner a little, no more squeaking. yeah!
the tape seems to be running smoothly now.
listen to it today - the tone of the echo still sounds really garbled.
WHAT THE ! !? 
i am thinking of demagnetizing next as i sincerely doubt now that all 3 of these new tapes that i have bought from reputable sellers, are all messed.
either that or adjusting the bias.
anyone done either of these or have any further thoughts/tips??
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Zacharia Matilda
pluggin' in mics
Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 32
Location: Factory Outlet-Maine
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: space echo hell |
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I have been thinking about getting one of those kits that has the new roller and "intake pad" that that guy from Australia sells on the bay.
Mine is a beast with a mind of it's own. Sometimes it works really well and sometimes it doesn't. Lately it has been behaving very well. With mine I think sooo much of it has to do with the tape tension as it travels over the heads. I fuss around with that until I get the right balance between tight enough so it travels well over all of the heads and not so tight that it bogs the motor down.
One of the reasons they can drive you so crazy is they sound so great if they are working well.
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joninc
george martin
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: canada
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: space echo hell |
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update:
Demagged the heads.
The echoes still sound very garbled/warbly/distorted.
I am thinking it must be a bias thing at this point. I have a copy of the manual but am still having a hard time figuring out where the screw is to adjust the bias.
help!?
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Darlington Pair
gettin' sounds
Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 120
Location: Staunton, VA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: space echo hell |
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| joninc wrote: | update:
Demagged the heads.
The echoes still sound very garbled/warbly/distorted.
I am thinking it must be a bias thing at this point. I have a copy of the manual but am still having a hard time figuring out where the screw is to adjust the bias.
help!? |
Lucky for you, it's on the motor board and it's labeled "bias" if you have it upside down with the motor towards you, it will be on the far left next to the bias trap coil, of course there are several different power supply boards so it's exact location moves a little, it's 50k pot.
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joninc
george martin
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: space echo hell |
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thanks for that but a followup q:
how do you access that?
do you take the whole thing apart somehow?
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Darlington Pair
gettin' sounds
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: space echo hell |
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| joninc wrote: | thanks for that but a followup q:
how do you access that?
do you take the whole thing apart somehow? |
Yep, there are two screws on the sides at the top front that hold two clips, take those out, then flip it over and remove the five or six screws on the bottom and the whole chassis will slide out. The good thing about a space echo is that it will work on it's end, so once you have it open if you put it on it's end with the heads pointed up you can then tune the bias by ear. You might want to mark where it is now (or even better, if you have a meter, measure where the wiper is) because there are several trim pots in there that can effect sound quality, like the recording level, and intensity pots.
You might want to take the service manual with your serial number and figure out what board set you have and then I might be able to help a little more with exact locations.
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joninc
george martin
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: space echo hell |
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Thanks for that!!
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joninc
george martin
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: space echo hell |
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there's got to be something else going on here - adjust the bias seemed to make NO CHANGE WHATSOEVER.
so to recap:
1. cleaned heads
2. replaced tape with 2 different types from reputable sellers
3. demagged the heads
4. adjusted bias
and echos still sound very garbled and not the crystalline beauty i know this machine was previously capable of.
time to take it to the tech and fork over more $.
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Darlington Pair
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: space echo hell |
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| joninc wrote: | there's got to be something else going on here - adjust the bias seemed to make NO CHANGE WHATSOEVER.
so to recap:
1. cleaned heads
2. replaced tape with 2 different types from reputable sellers
3. demagged the heads
4. adjusted bias
and echos still sound very garbled and not the crystalline beauty i know this machine was previously capable of.
time to take it to the tech and fork over more $. |
Have you double checked your tape path to make sure it's running in the right place? I say this because the other day I was replacing a tape and accidentally ran it around the wrong side of a guide.
Try messing with the record current, I believe that it's just marked "record" or maybe "level" on the board. Maybe this new tape wants to see a hotter level or possibly less if someone turned it up before.
If you feel like shipping it, I'll take a look at it for you, unless you have a tech that is trustworthy and experienced with space echoes. I should actually thank the tech that broke my space echo and blew up the output transformer in my amp because I vowed right then and there that I would never let anybody else work on my stuff again, and now I have a career as a research and development technician at a radio observatory after spending some time in a pro audio repair shop.
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joninc
george martin
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: space echo hell |
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| Darlington Pair wrote: |
Have you double checked your tape path to make sure it's running in the right place? I say this because the other day I was replacing a tape and accidentally ran it around the wrong side of a guide.
Try messing with the record current, I believe that it's just marked "record" or maybe "level" on the board. Maybe this new tape wants to see a hotter level or possibly less if someone turned it up before.
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yep, it's running through the tape path right and i did try making adjustments on ALL THE POTS (putting them back to where they were) and none helped my issue. i can change the overall volume a bit but not improve the quality.
my tech is old school and has all the tools to assess the electronics. barring that, there is also a Roland service center 40 min from here that i can take it to. they serviced it for the previous owner a little over a year or so ago and it sounded fantastic until 2 or 3 months ago when the tape get eaten up a bit somehow. (the pinch roller was kind of dirty and probably was sticky and pulled the tape)
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joninc
george martin
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: space echo hell |
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got it back from the tech - went through all the electronics and seems to be working according to specs and running fine.
but guess what?
THE ECHOES STILL SOUND LIKE $@#%!
time to take it in to roland.
i wonder if the play head is toast.
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Darlington Pair
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:47 am Post subject: Re: space echo hell |
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| joninc wrote: | got it back from the tech - went through all the electronics and seems to be working according to specs and running fine.
but guess what?
THE ECHOES STILL SOUND LIKE $@#%!
time to take it in to roland.
i wonder if the play head is toast. |
Well, that would be all three play heads that would be toasted, so I would doubt that. Check the alignment of the record head, there's pictures in the manual about how it should be done. I've also used an old tape and a dry erase marker, paint the heads, run the tape for a little while, and make sure that the marker has worn evenly, make adjustments, clean the heads really well, and replace the tape.
Is your pinch roller out of round?
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joninc
george martin
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: canada
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: space echo hell |
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my pinch roller appears to be in pretty good condition. doesn't look concave. the heads also look to be aligned very well.
i dropped 'er off at Roland this am. will report back with an update once i hear from them
thanks for all the help!
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