singer can't sing
singer can't sing
what do you do in the situation where the singer should not be singing?
Never took lessons, smokes cigarettes, is over weight and unhealthy..but wrote the songs and doesn't want anyone else to sing them.
Yes I underrstand I can just keep taking the money [when he has it which is sporatic] But I like this guy and have already had a major conversation that his backup singer who has an amazing voice should sing all the songs.
The guy in question is a great guitar player and i think he should just stick to that...but ego ego ego is in the way.
I did come up with the idea that she sings one and he sings one and put it on facebook and just invite their friends to vote.....I already know what the outcome of that will be let's just hope he takes heed.
thanks
Never took lessons, smokes cigarettes, is over weight and unhealthy..but wrote the songs and doesn't want anyone else to sing them.
Yes I underrstand I can just keep taking the money [when he has it which is sporatic] But I like this guy and have already had a major conversation that his backup singer who has an amazing voice should sing all the songs.
The guy in question is a great guitar player and i think he should just stick to that...but ego ego ego is in the way.
I did come up with the idea that she sings one and he sings one and put it on facebook and just invite their friends to vote.....I already know what the outcome of that will be let's just hope he takes heed.
thanks
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If he's happy let him be happy. Got to bring him down easy...
Depends on your relationship with him. My biggest client is great on drums, has usually cool production and song IDEAS but is not a great player or singer when it comes to any other instrument. I tell him how it is. He knows. If he wants to do it though...we'll just try to make the best.
Probably the best way to do it is just to A/B him with another great player though.
But you know, maybe he doesn't want anyone else to sing his songs? Put yourself in his shoes.
Maybe its not so much ego, more like...personally attached to his music? Wants to do it...for himself?
Depends on your relationship with him. My biggest client is great on drums, has usually cool production and song IDEAS but is not a great player or singer when it comes to any other instrument. I tell him how it is. He knows. If he wants to do it though...we'll just try to make the best.
Probably the best way to do it is just to A/B him with another great player though.
But you know, maybe he doesn't want anyone else to sing his songs? Put yourself in his shoes.
Maybe its not so much ego, more like...personally attached to his music? Wants to do it...for himself?
You need to offer him a scenario where his ego is fulfilled. Tell him that his song craft will be presented in a better light if someone else sings it, and that makes his songs shine. Then he can bask in the glory of a magnificent rendering of his songwriting prowess. He'll be viewed as the genius behind the works and a master puppeteer of various musical talents, etc., etc.
- A.David.MacKinnon
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^^^^^^^ I tend to agree.
If there's not much chance of him being the next big thing (and honestly, what are the chances even for those that are doing everything right) let it be. There are lots of times when the "good singer" is the wrong choice. This may or may not be one of them but it's probably not you're call to make.
Where would we be if someone had convinvced Daniel Johnson or Lou Reed or Patty Smith or Shane McGowen or Mick Jones or Bob Dylan or Neil Young or Beck or ..................... that they couldn't sing their own songs.
If there's not much chance of him being the next big thing (and honestly, what are the chances even for those that are doing everything right) let it be. There are lots of times when the "good singer" is the wrong choice. This may or may not be one of them but it's probably not you're call to make.
Where would we be if someone had convinvced Daniel Johnson or Lou Reed or Patty Smith or Shane McGowen or Mick Jones or Bob Dylan or Neil Young or Beck or ..................... that they couldn't sing their own songs.
- Nick Sevilla
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Re: singer can't sing
Hi supafuzz,supafuzz wrote:what do you do in the situation where the singer should not be singing?
Never took lessons, smokes cigarettes, is over weight and unhealthy..but wrote the songs and doesn't want anyone else to sing them.
Yes I underrstand I can just keep taking the money [when he has it which is sporatic] But I like this guy and have already had a major conversation that his backup singer who has an amazing voice should sing all the songs.
The guy in question is a great guitar player and i think he should just stick to that...but ego ego ego is in the way.
I did come up with the idea that she sings one and he sings one and put it on facebook and just invite their friends to vote.....I already know what the outcome of that will be let's just hope he takes heed.
thanks
To echo some of the sentiment already expressed on here.
"what do you do in the situation where the singer should not be singing?"
And who exactly are you, to be making this statement? Are you the Producer? Is it Your Money being wasted on the project? If yes to the previous two questions, then absolutely you have the say as to who will sing the songs.
Oh... you're NOT the Producer? And it is NOT Your Money being spent? Then absolutely you have no say in who gets to sing the songs.
Your artist, who is the songwriter, AND is paying you to record his music, wants to sing on his records. Why are you even asking this question? Go out there and record the man to the best of your ability, and STHU about everything else.
Because, in this case, you are the Engineer, and not the Producer.
GET YOUR EGO THE HELL OUT OF THE MAN'S WAY.
Cheers
Howling at the neighbors. Hoping they have more mic cables.
- ott0bot
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sorry supafuzz, you come across like the jerk here. especially the out of shape comments. who gives a flying-crap-sandwich-on-a-stick, man!
there are plenty of average to terrible singers that write great songs and sing. I wouldn't call Neil Young a good signer, with that weird high pitches moan thing, but he does alright. what about Bob Dylan? monotone rants that rarely waver out of a one octave range. I guess it works. even to make a more current crappy pop-reference, Kesha, who I think us absolutely terrible and can't sign, has top 10 singles.
now.. if he is trying to sing out of his range, or totally mangling a falsetto, it wouldn't hurt to have him try several different takes. but ultimately, when he hears play back and is happy. mission accomplished. Nick is totally spot on. if you are not the producer...just engineer the record the way the client wants it.
there are plenty of average to terrible singers that write great songs and sing. I wouldn't call Neil Young a good signer, with that weird high pitches moan thing, but he does alright. what about Bob Dylan? monotone rants that rarely waver out of a one octave range. I guess it works. even to make a more current crappy pop-reference, Kesha, who I think us absolutely terrible and can't sign, has top 10 singles.
now.. if he is trying to sing out of his range, or totally mangling a falsetto, it wouldn't hurt to have him try several different takes. but ultimately, when he hears play back and is happy. mission accomplished. Nick is totally spot on. if you are not the producer...just engineer the record the way the client wants it.
- Gregg Juke
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Lots of opinions here, and all make sense in their own way. But my stock answer is basically the same as Nick's-- if you are the Producer (as agreed upon by both you and the artist), then you have to fix it somehow; and that "somehow" is indeed the challenge of producing!
If you're the Engineer, well, take the money and make the best recording you can, because it's none of your concern. Certainly not beyond the sense that you've already tried to talk into him. Record what he puts out, because that's the interpretation of his songs that he wants.
GJ
PS-- One tip... See, the "Producer" would have done pre-production with the artist, known about the problem ahead of time, and had plans A, B, and C ready before the first session.
If you're the Engineer, well, take the money and make the best recording you can, because it's none of your concern. Certainly not beyond the sense that you've already tried to talk into him. Record what he puts out, because that's the interpretation of his songs that he wants.
GJ
PS-- One tip... See, the "Producer" would have done pre-production with the artist, known about the problem ahead of time, and had plans A, B, and C ready before the first session.
I agree that supafuzz hasn't been hired to be a producer, but I say the lines are blurrier than that. It's not black and white who's in artistic control during a session. Especially a good session, where everyone's contribution is as a team, a part of a whole. If a recordist sees a better way forward, then why not inject that. It's up to you what you think is appropriate as a button pusher or a full-on producer. Bravo for caring, is what I say, supafuzz. Maybe it will all work out for the best, but also remember that you don't have the last word, either.
The putting things to the vote on the internet, however, is a bad idea. I remember when Jethro Tull made an album that was predicated on focus groups' reactions. Seems backwards to me.
The putting things to the vote on the internet, however, is a bad idea. I remember when Jethro Tull made an album that was predicated on focus groups' reactions. Seems backwards to me.
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If I'm paying for studio time and I'm not shelling out extra bucks specifically for a producer, then I'm damn well in artistic control of my sessions. It's pretty black and white to me and my checkbook.Osumosan wrote:It's not black and white who's in artistic control during a session.
Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC
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