I'm back after hiatus and finally building a space! Advice?

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Which room should be my mix/tracking/control room?

Bedroom
0
No votes
Loft
3
100%
 
Total votes: 3

Circuit Scream
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I'm back after hiatus and finally building a space! Advice?

Post by Circuit Scream » Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:15 am

Hey all,
I'm getting active again in music after a few years off doing filmmaking. My wife and I are building a house and I'll finally have a very nice workspace after years of very closet-size spare rooms and apartments.

Just wanted to share what I'm doing, and hoping to get some suggestions on it. Hopefully there aren't too many flaws in my logic. ;)

I've been planning and researching, pricing, and watching videos. Have my list of books from the suggestions here and will be picking one of them up this weekend. I move into the new space end of September.

It's a ranch with an upstairs bonus/loft. They just finished drywall last week, and it's looking good. (1/2" drywall throughout). Unfortunately we couldn't do any treatment pre-drywall since it would void our home warranty. I was bummed about that part, but it is what is.

My plan is to use the "bedroom" as the main room where I'll track, edit, and mix. The bigger loft space is "sort of open" to the downstairs (I could put a door in at the bottom of the stairs and completely close it off, since it's not a full open loft in that sense). I have not yet ruled that out.

I record mostly guitars (direct - through my various heads or processors) and synths, drum machines. No live drums. My monitors are the only output to worry about, but my main goal is to keep the sound from getting out of the house and bugging the neighbors. I don't really "crank it" so much, but I don't want the thud of the kick drum to be an issue. I'd also like to keep that from annoying my wife while she's downstairs - my room happens to be right over her dance room.

My budget: $3000

Celings: 8ft.
Walls: 1/2" drywall (the construction supervisor did a favor for me and sealed SOME of the spaces upstairs with acoustic caulk! Rock on!)
Floors: Carpet

My plans so far:

The "Bedroom":
1. Complete coverage with Auralex sheetblok on the wall with the window, making a DIY "window box" of some sort.
2. Stuffing the closet as one big-ass bass trap.
3. Sheetblok on the OUTSIDE (attic space) of the mix wall and rear wall. Thoughts on that? I can access each of those areas completely from the attic - they were generous in their access. :)
4. Complete coverage with Sheetblok on the inside of the wall adjacent to the bathroom.
5. Floor - suggestions? Sheetblok?
6. Ceiling - suggestions? Sheetblok is probably too heavy I think.

I'll be placing the mix desk and speakers along the long wall as indicated (the floor plan there has a little door there to the attic space, but it's not actually in our model - that entire wall is solid) with the desk 2ft off the wall and the speakers 1.5 ft out from the wall. Thoughts here - will this place my desk too far out in the middle of the room? (desk is the Studio RTA producer station with the racks and riser). Speakers will go on stands by themselves just behind the desk.

I'll have one other small desk to the right side (on the wall adjacent to the bathroom) for drum machines and synths, and a side rack on the left for outboard gear. That's the only furniture planned.

First order of business is getting the sheetblok in, followed by corner treatment - Auralex LENRDs, Cornerfill cubes in the "ATOM-12" pattern, (I already have 4 of the LENRDs and a few of the 2x4 sheets of 2" wedge. I'll wait to treat the rest when I'm moved in and can hear where the reflection issues are going to be.

Again my main concern is the sound getting out. I'm not worried about hearing much from the outside, their construction is already pretty solid and luckily the new place, even though it's a subdivision, is out in the country a little bit.

The bathroom:
Double as a vocal booth. :) Not planning on any treatment etc at this time. Suggestions? (I'd love to have it ripped out and made part of the bedroom, but alas, not an option.)

Loft: Not sure - will be an office/workshop area for now. Open to suggestions, one possibility is I close off the stairwell at the bottom and make it the main room.


Hopefully these images will link properly from my site:

Floor Plan:
Image

In the loft, looking towards the bedroom area:
Image


Thanks for looking and for any advice!
-Donnie
"I avoided capture by using your Mak'tar stealth haze"
--Quellek

Donnie Maynard Christianson
aka Circuit Scream
Sci-fi Inspired Ambient/Electronic Guitar Rock
http://twitter.com/circuitscream

Circuit Scream
gimme a little kick & snare
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:35 am
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Post by Circuit Scream » Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:25 am

Oh - guess I should list some of my gear, huh? :)

DAW: Reaper on a rack-mount Quad Core i7 that I built
(am considering still trying to get a Tascam 388 and try to sync with the DAW)

Monitors: Alesis M1 Active MKII
Interface: Tascam FW-1804 rack
Console/Controller: (shopping - looking at replacing the 1804 with an FW-1884 OR get a US-2400)

Outboard/amps:
Alesis 3630 comp
Digitech S100
POD XT Pro
Digitech GSP 21 Pro
ART MPA II preamp
Marshall amp heads

Decks:
Tascam 32
Akai GX-4000D

Other:
Arturia Spark controller
M-Audio Axiom 25 controller
Yamaha RY-10 drum machine

And guitars, pedals, and other toys
"I avoided capture by using your Mak'tar stealth haze"
--Quellek

Donnie Maynard Christianson
aka Circuit Scream
Sci-fi Inspired Ambient/Electronic Guitar Rock
http://twitter.com/circuitscream

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JWL
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Post by JWL » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:33 am

If that were me, I'd set up in the loft. It is bigger than the bedroom, and the bedroom is nearly a square.

I would get all my soundproofing advice and products from soundproofingcompany.com.

In terms of treatment, I don't see a strategy to deal with bass trapping under 200Hz.

These links will help:
http://realtraps.com/art_basics.htm
http://realtraps.com/art_room-setup.htm

Circuit Scream
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Post by Circuit Scream » Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:19 pm

Thanks JWL, checking out those links now.

Regarding the bass trapping, does that mean a vinyl solution like Sheetblok or MLV plus the corner traps won't keep the bass from getting out of the room?

Even if I use 1 ft thick bass traps?
"I avoided capture by using your Mak'tar stealth haze"
--Quellek

Donnie Maynard Christianson
aka Circuit Scream
Sci-fi Inspired Ambient/Electronic Guitar Rock
http://twitter.com/circuitscream

Circuit Scream
gimme a little kick & snare
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Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:35 am
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Post by Circuit Scream » Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:42 pm

Sorry, posted to quick - I need to clarify:

I do know the difference between soundproofing and treatment - I meant the trapping under 200khz - can you elaborate? I'm guessing that means to get the 40-30khz under control involves some construction?

I *can* do some minor construction on certain walls if necessary. I would prefer to keep it to a minimum though. A floating floor is probably out of the question, if only because of added weight since it's an upstairs room.

Thanks!
"I avoided capture by using your Mak'tar stealth haze"
--Quellek

Donnie Maynard Christianson
aka Circuit Scream
Sci-fi Inspired Ambient/Electronic Guitar Rock
http://twitter.com/circuitscream

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JWL
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Post by JWL » Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:51 pm

I've never worked with MLV or Sheetblok. I prefer to work with more proven materials.

The bass traps won't help (much) in terms of sound entering/leaving the room. Some of the bass trap products you mentioned don't have much improvement under 200Hz (due to their size mostly).

12" thick of fiberglass might help. 18" would be better if it is fluffy fiberglass.

cgarges
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Post by cgarges » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:22 pm

Hey Donnie, nice to see you back around.

Think of your space like an aquarium. If you build it mostly solid, you're throwing your money away. An aquarium with 1" thick glass on the sides, but no caulk on the bottom corners is not going to hold water, so the 1" thick glass is especially useless. Likewise, anywhere that stuff isn't sealed solid means that sound is gonna get out, so be careful what you put your money into.

MLV and Sheetblock can be cool, but sections of it on each wall, for instance, aren't gonna be of much help in a cost-effective manner. I don't think you're gonna be able to get that on the ceiling at all. And I think that typically, Sheetblock and MLV are placed between layers of drywall. I suspect that just hanging MLV on the walls is gonna give you a pretty weird-sounding space, although with enough of it, it will reduce sound transmission. But MLV is expensive and having it on the walls, but no real isolation on the floor or ceiling, is probably not the best use of funds. Again, thick glass on an aquarium with a screen bottom, you know?

The fact that you have speaker stands is a good start, if they're decently isolated.

I do agree that the loft is probably better-suited for a good-sounding space, although keeping sound in that room with the stairs there is going to be nearly impossible if it's laid out like I think it is.

I've got a great guy for you to talk to about some of this. Not sure how far he can go with your budget on the whole thing, but it might be worth giving him a shout. PM me for his number if you're interested.

Hope all is well!

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

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digitaldrummer
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Post by digitaldrummer » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:45 am

if it were me, I'd look at some "superchunk bass traps" (google that if unfamiliar). very easy to build and they can be somewhat unobtrusive in the room. also very easy to remove if needed.

bookshelves make nice diffusion and can still be decorative (if that is an issue) otherwise, your Auralex and other treatments will work.

use the mirror trick to place absorption in the reflective areas adjacent to your monitors.

build something to block the window - it's probably the weakest point for leakage to the outside. I've used a piece of the blue styrofoam insulation (because it's lighter than plywood) and then fitted OC703 (in fabric) that fit tightly into the window opening. it's removable if you want light...

if you want to keep the bass from getting out you'd need to double up sheetrock and float the floor and all that. A lot cheaper to sell the sub-woofer...

Mike
Mike
www.studiodrumtracks.com -- Drum tracks starting at $50!
www.doubledogrecording.com

Circuit Scream
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Post by Circuit Scream » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:49 am

Hey guys, sorry for the late reply. Good to see ya Chris! I will PM you my info, thanks man - I appreciate that!

They did seal around the seams and from what I could tell, every gap, before the drywall went in. I need to verify if they used acoustic caulk though. It was orange, that's all I know. I will have access to the framing in the attic and plan to seal as much as I can reach from that side - it's VERY good access to those exterior walls.

Seems like the vinyl sheet material isn't going to be much good in this case - that's been unanimous everywhere I've mentioned it. I was initially thinking a layer of that under the carpet, then covering the walls and then just completely covering THAT with 2" or 3" foam to deaden the whole space, but yeah - that could sound odd.,
Decided against the loft area for the space - the layout with the stairwell is not gonna give me a good mix position, and it's gonna be hell trying to get a sealed door at the bottom of the stairs - way too open.



Hey Mike, thanks - I'm searching now. What you describe for the window is kinda what we're thinking - just wasn't sure what materials to use.

I took a look at it on Saturday, and looks like we might be able to get in the new place in about six weeks, so my plan when we move in is to set up the core gear in that back room and start listening, moving it around, and try to get a feel for the sweet spot and the problem areas are before buying anything.


Will report back soon... :)
"I avoided capture by using your Mak'tar stealth haze"
--Quellek

Donnie Maynard Christianson
aka Circuit Scream
Sci-fi Inspired Ambient/Electronic Guitar Rock
http://twitter.com/circuitscream

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