Yet another basement studio question

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standup
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Yet another basement studio question

Post by standup » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:50 pm

I'm setting up shop in a basement in the house we recently bought. I'm in the basement, with concrete floors and cinderblock outer walls. Concrete floor. Mostly for recording, also for practices etc.

Ceiling is 7'6", open joists. L shaped floorplan.

I'm thinking of putting Ultratouch cotton between the joists for a soft ceiling/hard floor kind of thing, and I've got 8-10 OC703 panels, 4" thick that I can hang at reflection points.

I'm thinking I'll need Ultratouch over the drum kit and over the mix position, and leave the middle of the ceilng untreated--I'm afraid it would be too muffled if I filled all the rafters with insulation.

I'm trying to accomplish low end absorption and ugly reflection mitigation. There's not enough ceiling height to build a floating floor or ceiling, and I'm not concerned about sound transmission as much as making the room sound a little better.

My questions are these:

If you've done this, what thickness Ultratouch did you use? A single layer of R30 could fill the space. Do I need to compress it, or let it fill as it wants to naturally?

If I use R6 or R13 I'll have to do multiple layers.

What about reflective strips nailed to the fabric that covers the insulation, to reflect some highs back into the room? If you've done this, what width and how far apart did you use?

And if I don't get fire-retardant fabric (I've got some burlap already on hand) is there an effective way to treat it so that it is fire-retardant?

What am I not thinking of, if you've done this and learned from it?

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Drawing below is not strictly to scale, I think I drew the furniture and drum kit smaller than reality.

Image: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/957 ... orplan.png

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JWL
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Post by JWL » Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:17 pm

Ultratouch is OK. It doesn't have great gas flow resistance properties, which means it doesn't perform well when it's thicker. I've done as you describe using the 5.5" thick stuff (it's rated at that, but in practice I found it to be closer to 4" thick) and it seemed to work well. The room I heard this in was a converted 2 car garage, ie, about 20x20, and it surprised me how it did NOT sound too dead when all the studs and joists were stuffed with it. If it were me I would not go any thicker than the 5.5" stuff (I believe that was R20 but I could be wrong). Don't compress it, just let it sit between the 2x4s. You'll likely need to devise something to keep it from falling between the ceiling joists and causing the cloth to bulge.

If it were me I'd use the Ultratouch at reflection points (absorbing highs isn't that hard) -- you can do the entire room in Ultratouch -- and use your rigid fiberglass across the corners to beef up the bass trapping. Certainly the 2 corners in the front of the control room, and the corner closest to the drum kit. Possibly the other 2 corners at the far side of the L (ie, on left of the drawing).

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Post by standup » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:58 am

Thanks. I've found some chisel-tip metal supports you can stick into the joists to keep the stuff from sagging.

I may have enough fiberglass panels for corners and main reflection points, so leftover Ultratouch is a bonus.

Anyone have thoughts on DIY flame retardant fabric?

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Post by JWL » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:58 am

You can treat fabric with flame-resistant chemicals. It often comes in spray cans. Or you can just get flame-resistant cloth.

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Post by Darlington Pair » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:15 am

Something to think of, my local lowes and the one my bass player in which works in TN both recently started stocking mineral wool insulation.

I hear you on the low ceilings, my basement is the same. The thing that kinda works for me is that my house is kind of a piece of crap that was converted from a corn crib in the 30s into a house and then the basement was dug out by hand in the 50s so my basement ceiling was originally made with trees with the bark still on and then varying dimensions of lumber added over the years so it really is pretty random. In between the joists, over the drums, and over my mix position are all beefed up with as much absorption as I can reasonably get.

Bass is a real problem in the small concrete room, luckily it's got a closet in a corner that makes it more L shaped than square. It takes a lot of bass trapping to tame so everywhere that walls join to each other or the floor is trapped with mineral wool traps. I had a lot of 2'x4' birch plywood left after redoing my bedroom with finished plywood floors so I did old school poly diffusers that alternate vertical and horizontal that are stuffed with mineral wool behind them.

The room is much better sounding now, certainly not perfect, and certainly not good enough for some folks around here... but I make dirty sounding space rock so it's just fine for me. Of course it's always a work in progress that I try to improve whenever I have the dough.

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Post by standup » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:53 pm

I've got a good bit of 703 fiberglass for corner trapping, and it looks like I can get Ultratouch from Home Depot (by the pallet only) or from a local DC supplier I'm waiting for a quote from.

The room is an OK size, L shaped with 25' on the long side. I'm hoping insulation in the joists will make the big difference for the low ceiling. Guess I could fall back on rock wool if Ultratouch is hard to actually get ahold of.

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Post by norton » Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:50 am

In my experience, Ultra touch isn't worth paying any extra $ for. It doesn't out perform standard fiberglass insulation in sound transmission.

It is less itchy, but it's extremely dusty and will have your lungs coated in blue dust. I would not work with it without a mask. Yes, it's that dusty.... Plus it's really difficult to work with and cut etc.

I'd rather wear my blue jeans than stuff them in wall cavities.

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