The poor man's Master

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soundsofcallado
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The poor man's Master

Post by soundsofcallado » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:58 am

Hey all,

Have been doing some "poor man's" mastering lately. My band and I and other bands we play with would much rather (and are saving money) to send things to a real mastering engineer with real ability, but in the meantime, however, we've been doing our own versions.

I know what mastering is for and what it's supposed to do. I get the basic ideas and I understand that digital visuals (like meters in ProTools) aren't accurate and I need to trust me ear.

All the same: what am I looking for? Are there certain frequencies that I should focus on? Raise or lower them? Suggested compressor settings? Comparisons and to what? These things seem to elude me because at the moment I don't have that knowledge base.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.
Thank you.

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ChrisNW
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Re: The poor man's Master

Post by ChrisNW » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:44 am

Hey Soundsofcallado,
There can be many different goals for the mastering process, but it's safe to say whatever changes you make in your "poor man's" mastering process should improve the sound of your mixes. Definitely experiment with EQ, compression, and limiting, but be sure to maintain honesty with yourself, and be open to removing any processors that negatively affect your mix's tone or dynamics. It's funny to say, but I often find the "best" compression setting for some mixes can be "bypass."

If you're curious, I have a blog article about A/Bing as a method of problem solving in mastering, which you can find here...
http://vitamastering.com/blog/better-or ... mastering/
soundsofcallado wrote:Hey all,
All the same: what am I looking for? Are there certain frequencies that I should focus on? Raise or lower them? Suggested compressor settings? Comparisons and to what? These things seem to elude me because at the moment I don't have that knowledge base.
As for what frequencies to focus on, it can be difficult to gauge problem areas when using the same speakers for mixing and mastering. Maybe try listening to your mix on various playback systems to determine what ranges are over or under represented.

Hope this helps, and best of luck!
-Chris
Audio Mastering in Portland, OR
www.vitamastering.com

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Post by vvv » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:54 pm

You do realize your post may start a firestorm, right? :lol:

I'll answer as a long-time bedroom recordist, too prolific to afford professional mastering myself, by telling you what I try to accomplish by engaging in what I call, "masturding".

Your mileage will certainly vary, and what I do is certainly not "mastering" in the accepted sense, or mebbe even in any acceptable sense.

So:

First, I shoot for as much congruity in the 2-mixes (mix-downs) as desired, and "top and tail" the tracks, such that extraneous noise is gone, fades are perfect, etc. I usually like .1 second of silence at the head of every track - it just works for me - and I like to end tracks on a whole second number rather than a decimal, as it's easier for liner notes.

Then, I decide on sequence.

Next I shoot for consistent EQ on the 2-mix of each song in comparison to the others, or at least the ones right before and after in the sequence. Starting places include high-pass (I usually do 40Hz as a default, fairly gradual shelf slope), and then stuff like "air" (10-12kHz, sometimes, gradual shelf up, sometimes, sometimes a wide peak, sometimes none - depends on the track) and mebbe cut mud around 350 or 450Hz by a couple db, usually at a Q of 1.3 - these are just figures I find I adjust sometimes more than others, as a starting place, with my material, ears, and equipment ... There's nothing the matter with using using similar settings most of the time, BTW, but you have to find them according to your given material, ears and rig. And you might not be able to ...

Next I go for peak-limiting (I personally don't mix into or apply compression to the 2-mix), usually setting peaks at -.3db (which ensures no digital overs in my DAW if I convert to *.mp3 or FLAC later), but always listening to the tracks in sequence to make sure apparent level is correct, i.e., that they sound consistent when played in order. You can't use digital data to set average loudness levels because the average loudness of an acoustic number, for example, is usually gonna be lower than an electric number, digital data-statistically speaking. So, listen.

Finally, I listen to everything on various playback set-ups, ex., in the car, headphones, I-Pod, the kitchen and bathroom and den stereos ...

And I start all over, or just adjust, as necessary.

Hope that's helpful.
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Re: The poor man's Master

Post by I'm Painting Again » Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:24 pm

Depends on the format are you mastering for. Digital, cassette, vinyl, etc. Each format requires different things from a master.

I don't think anyone can tell you a single comp/limit or eq setting that will be helpful because it's all dependent on the specific mixes.

Comparison is good..knowing what a record should sound like is good..having an accurate playback system and other references is mportant..

I like to put all the tracks in order then listen through a few times without doing anything just taking notes on everything I hear..then go and correct the issues I noted..then take a break..repeat go through the program..take notes on the issues..do a second pass..repeat until it's correct or as good as it can be..this is particularly effective because memory for sound is terrible..

As far as making it sound loud and have a nice eq I'm lucky enough to have an Ampex 440b-2 and Lavry converters..I'm not going to go into my process but those things are essentially some of my comp/limiting tools and eq to a lesser extent as well..just re-recording mixes through those devices at certain settings..gives my basement studio results that can rival commercial productions..

Like I said different formats require different kinds of masters and I think if you look up and understand the way a vinyl disc should be mastered it will give you some really good ideas for making all the others sound good and will inadvertently give you some oft overlooked mixing tips you can implement in the future as well..if you can make a proper vinyl master all you need to do is figure out a way to make the apparent volume sound loud and you'll have a good digital master..

BTW i can master mixes for super cheap but when you're getting enough budget for a pro you ought to spring for Scott Craggs at Old Colony Mastering because he's far more equipped both in gear and experience and on the spectrum of mastering pricing $35 per song is a steal.

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JWL
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Post by JWL » Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:48 pm

I thought this video was helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zetHy_lDNYE

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Re: The poor man's Master

Post by Waltz Mastering » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:05 am

soundsofcallado wrote: what am I looking for?
Basically looking to have the songs presented in the best possible light .. give you a hug and engage you, knowing what knobs to turn to get there. Continuity through an album. Assemble the DDP or cd master for replication, distro, broadcast. spacing, text, codes.. quality control..

Having a room/system that you trust is important.. and developing your critical listening skills.. that can take a while.. good luck.

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Re: The poor man's Master

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:03 pm

oops
Last edited by MoreSpaceEcho on Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The poor man's Master

Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:05 pm

first, thanks for the kind words geoff. means a lot!
soundsofcallado wrote: All the same: what am I looking for? Are there certain frequencies that I should focus on? Raise or lower them? Suggested compressor settings? Comparisons and to what? These things seem to elude me because at the moment I don't have that knowledge base.
there are no certain frequencies. as always, it depends. you might have one mix that's really bright, and the next mix is drowning in subs.

mastering is 99% listening, 1% doing stuff.

you always want to do as little as possible. sometimes that's quite a lot. sometimes you do a ton of stuff just to make it seem like you didn't do anything. sometimes you actually don't have to do anything at all!

if you spend any time reading about mastering on the internet, you will find that some supposed ME's seem to think that most mixes come in rife with problems, and it's only through their heroic efforts that the end result is even slightly listenable. in my experience this is not the case. most mixes come in sounding pretty good, and mastering them is fairly routine. of course there are exceptions, but my point with this is that it will behoove you to go into it with the attitude that the mixes are good and part one of your job is to not screw them up.

part two is making them sound better and/or making sure they sound as good as they can on any playback medium.

THEE MOST IMPORTANT THING is having good monitors in a good room. i can't stress this enough. if you're at all serious about this there is no getting around it. i'd say a well-treated room is even more important than the monitors, so if your room is lacking in treatment, spend the money you're saving by not hiring a professional ME on some real treatment. it's not that expensive and you can DIY perfectly effective treatments in a weekend or so.

by real treatment i mean bass traps, and by bass traps i mean thick and as many as possible. if there's a common problem area on most mixes, it's the low end, and if you can't hear low end accurately in your room, you're just going to be chasing your tail, AND you are likely going to be making "corrections" that are in fact only correct in your room. which is not what we want from mastering at all.

i know, you're like...all these words and dude hasn't even told me what compressor settings to start out with. bear with me, we'll get there.

so we'll say you have a room/monitoring scenario you know well and are comfortable with. great. spend as much time as possible listening to records you know and love in there. as wide a variety as possible. learn what mastered records sound like on your system. see how big a ballpark you have to work in, as far as brightness, amount of bass, stereo width, transient detail, etc etc. you will find that it's a pretty big ballpark!

ok so let's actually master a damn record already. put the mixes up, preferably in the order they're gonna go on the record, but it's not essential.

LISTEN. you don't necessarily have to listen to every second of every song, but go through them and get an idea of what you have to work with. ask questions:

are the songs stylistically similar or are they all over the place?
do the mixes all sound similar or are they all over the place?
does anything jump out at me as being weird? i.e. phase issues, overwhelming subs, severely congested low mids, painful high mids, s's that are like laser beams, etc. make notes if you need to.

assuming there's nothing totally bonkers happening, the first thing i do is ballpark in the levels of each song. sometimes the mixes are already pretty consistent and i don't need to do much of this, but usually there will be a couple that are obviously louder or quieter than the rest. just adjust those so things are reasonably consistent.

the second thing i do is open up the mastering chain and bring the level up to about where it's going to be in the end. this is important. you don't want to make all your eq decisions, and then put on a compressor, and then put on a limiter. that's shooting at a moving target. you know how everyone says not to eq in solo when you're mixing? the same thing is true in mastering. everything affects everything else. you want to be making decisions while listening at the level it's going to be at.

to that end, i think it's really important, crucial actually, to listen at a fixed monitoring level. you don't want to master one record one day listening at 75db, and then the next day do a different record listening at 85db. find a spot on your monitor controller that's comfortable to listen at, mark it, and stick to it. this isn't to say i only ever listen at one level, of course not, but when I'm making processing decisions it's pretty much always at that one fixed level.

ok, so your mastering chain. if you're new, keep it simple. eq, compressor, limiter. forget multiband anything, stereo wideners, tape sims, exciters, whatever the new thing is on gearslutz this week. all that stuff can be fine when you need it, but honestly you are not going to need it most of the time.

eq is the most used tool in mastering (yes, even more than the damn limiter). getting the eq right is most of the job. so, listen. does it need eq? keep in mind that in mastering, a db is a lot. a couple 1db cuts and boosts on a mix can make a huge difference in how the mix comes across. so be gentle. be vigilant with the bypass and really listen to what changes the eq is making. is it actually better or just different?

while 1db is a lot, sometimes we have to fix bigger problems, so don't be shy if you need to dig in to make something sound right. for example, it's not uncommon to get records that were clearly mixed on little tiny speakers with no low end at all. and predictably they have way way way too much sub. it sounds great on little speakers but it'll sound stupid on any bigger system. make it sound right and don't worry what the numbers say.

in general, wider q boosts/cuts sound more natural and are more effective than narrow ones. it's pretty rare that i feel like i need to 'notch' something.

don't default to anything ever. not all mixes need a hipass, or a low boost, or a low mid cut, or this or that. you have to listen to it and decide.

as far as compression, truthfully so much stuff comes in already more compressed than it needs to be. my compressors are flat as often as they're doing anything. but, in general for mastering, think low ratio, slow attack, fastish release. of course, sometimes you have mixes with say a really pokey snare, and in cases like that you might instead go for higher ratio and threshold, faster attack type of compression to reign the snare in.

as far as limiting, i think it's better to push level into the limiter than use the limiter to get all your level. so rather than doing 4db of limiting, you might find you get better results putting a clipper before the limiter and doing 2db on each. or not! it depends! you have to listen!

i think it's also important to work quickly and not get too bogged down trying a million different things. ideally you'd listen to the song once, listen to it again with your processing decisions, say "that sounds great" and print it. real life isn't so simple, but it's helpful to work with that in mind. you want to be thinking about the songs, not which compressor to use. get yourself a simple set of tools, learn them well, and use them without having to stop and think about it much.

tl;dr don't worry about any of this crap and just hire me or any of the other fabulous and very reasonably priced pro ME's out there. we are here to help, and tracking/mixing records is hard enough work already. it's nice to be able to hand it off to someone else, put your feet up, and say "here, it's YOUR problem now."

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Post by dfieldmusic » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:11 pm

I think, especially if you're working on something you recorded and mixed yourself, trying to get some perspective with regards to other people's records can be very enlightening. I would say on that though, that most CDs produced in the last 15 years (including remasters) or so are very, VERY loud and trying to recreate that kind of volume is likely to lead to some serious degradation of your recordings unless you're very skilled (or have very dynamically controlled/static mixes to work with).

I have a couple of playlists of songs I think sound great on the studio computer. One for loud mastering comparisons - everything from Justin Timberlake to the Fiery Furnaces to Bowie and Gabriel remasters - and one for quiet mastering comparisons - original 80s CD issues of Prince, The Roches, Joni Mitchell and Peter Gabriel and a bit of Jim O'Rourke which manages to be loud but appears to have next to no compression or limiting going on - I seem to remember an interview in Tapeop which hinted he was a big fan of automating fader moves.

I find over and over again that real records have significantly less bass and often a lot more treble sheen than my mixes do.

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Post by dfieldmusic » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:28 pm

Also, MoreSpaceEcho's post is the bee's knees. Lots of critical listening, making good EQ decisions, and a bit of judicious dynamic control. After reading the Katz Mastering Audio book I started trying some subtle automation of overall pre-processing track level to accentuate structural dynamics. For instance, across a quieter section you might gradually, imperceptibly LOWER the volume so when you bring it back up to 0 or whatever for the big re-entry it sounds even bigger.

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:29 pm

dfieldmusic wrote:I think, especially if you're working on something you recorded and mixed yourself, trying to get some perspective with regards to other people's records can be very enlightening.
it's the only way. mastering your own stuff (especially if you're working in the same room/monitors as you mixed on) is very, very difficult. even for experienced people.

put your shit up against records you'd imagine it sitting next to in a playlist. if your record sounds like a telephone compared to everything else (and in your mind it's supposed to sound like everything else), then you have some hard work to do.

i say that as someone whose mixes sound like a telephone compared to everything else.

this can be a real punch in the gut, but it's the perspective you need and it's very educational.

and as far as loudness....yes. if you're comparing your record to modern super smashed stuff, you are either going to have to pile A LOT of abuse on your mix to get it to match, or (better!) just say fuck it and put your record out at a lower level. i realize no one (me included) wants their stuff to sound like some tiny little thing peeking out of the speakers compared to everything else, but it's entirely possible to get things reasonably loud without making them totally fatiguing and painful to listen to.

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Post by soundsofcallado » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:37 pm

Thanks so much everyone.

This is a ton of great info! I feel I'm on the right track, I think it's just contouring my ears to this process.

I've been using a EQ and a comp and then a Manley plug in for the mastering limiter (and like a real amateur I can't tell you the name of it without looking at it). So I'm just sort of playing around and see how things sound or don't.

Thanks so much again everyone, this has been very helpful!
Thank you.

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Post by cgarges » Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:28 pm

Craggs FTW as usual.

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Post by MoreSpaceEcho » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:04 am

just doin' my job ma'am.

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