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How many mono-ize the lows inna mix?

 
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vvv
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:44 pm    Post subject: How many mono-ize the lows inna mix? Reply with quote

Reading comments in this thread, and especially re the mono-izing of lows in mixes for vinyl, I'm curious:

Does anyone here take specific steps to mono-ize the lows in their mixes?

Why?

How?

What frequency(ies)?

When/what mixes?

How often?

Examples?
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Nick Sevilla
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:34 am    Post subject: Re: How many mono-ize the lows inna mix? Reply with quote

Hi vvv,

When I did a few mixes with the bass instrument panned to one side, for artistic reasons, we did give the vinyl ME versions with the bass instrument panned to the center, just in case he needed them.

Turns out he did not in that album, because the bass was not so much louder than the rest of the instruments, it did not cause problems.

But I could see a Reggae track causing problems... Wink
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vvv
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: How many mono-ize the lows inna mix? Reply with quote

Real world! Cool

In the other thread, floid said, "as I understand it a common mastering process is to mono-ize a mix below a certain freq".

And JWL said, "But keep in mind that a lot of the low frequency content of music (ie, kick drum, bass, etc) is mixed in mono most of the time."

I mean, I only ever record bass in mono, same with the kick, except that there might be stereo info in overheads or mebbe room mic's, or bleed, etc.

Does anyone take steps to mono-ize that stuff, or are we just talking about a property of the low frequencies themselves?

Specific examples: in a live band recording to two-track, or just a drum two-mix, does anyone "mono-ize"?
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Drone
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: How many mono-ize the lows inna mix? Reply with quote

That's something that's only really a specific need for one medium, wouldn't it be taken care of in mastering, and only for that one medium?

I have a crossover that low sums, but that's a post process, not something I'd use in recording.
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JWL
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: How many mono-ize the lows inna mix? Reply with quote

I just meant that it's common for low frequency sources (bass, kick drum, etc) to be panned center for these mixes. This essentially creates a mono low end, particularly when most/all of the other instruments have high pass filters on them (which is also very common).
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floid
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: How many mono-ize the lows inna mix? Reply with quote

My understanding (and I welcome correction) is that beyond "requirements of the medium," an overabundance of sub info in the sides of a mix can tax headroom - in other words, letting both speakers in the average home stereo work on LF in unison gives each side a bit of extra breathing room for handling other elements. Adding a sub is an extension of the same, as is the crossover in general. This intersects a bit with impedance being frequency dependent, and the logarithmic relationship between #of speakers and apparent loudness.
From a practical mix standpoint, as JWL mentioned, centering kick and bass, and hi-passing the rest gets this mostly accomplished. It's been discussed here beforw, and i've been generally doing it for a decade or so. Lately I've been experimenting with using mid side eq on the drum mix and for pseudo-mastering, and for instance, the floor tom still sits obviously to the right, but it seems like I can tame its pull a bit, and in the process get a little better stereo balance. And it can get a bit scary, just how high you can high-pass the sides before things start to sound really obviously wrong.
But again, I welcome correction or suggestions for better practice.
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vvv
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: How many mono-ize the lows inna mix? Reply with quote

floid wrote:

From a practical mix standpoint, as JWL mentioned, centering kick and bass, and hi-passing the rest gets this mostly accomplished.


Yeah, this is what I do (altho' sometimes not hi-passing the OH's can be cool).

Thanx to all y'all for the further explanation; I think I misunderstood that there was some process in existence/common practice that I didn't know about.
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MoreSpaceEcho
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:25 pm    Post subject: Re: How many mono-ize the lows inna mix? Reply with quote

vvv wrote:
In the other thread, floid said, "as I understand it a common mastering process is to mono-ize a mix below a certain freq".


not common at all. i pretty much never do it.

if you're pressing vinyl, then maybe your vinyl ME might mono the low end, but this should be left to them.

mute the kick and bass in your mix. how much actual sub is there? i'm gonna guess not much.
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