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LUFS while mixing

 
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jmpace
takin' a dinner break


Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:25 pm    Post subject: LUFS while mixing Reply with quote

Anyone taking into account LUFS levels while mixing?

If so, which one? It's been discussed that -24 is for TV and movies, and -16.5 is roughly the standard for iTunes.

This product seems interesting in that it can listen to all tracks (post fader) and adjust faders accordingly project-wide to comply with whatever loudness standard you select.

https://www.klangfreund.com/lufsmeter/
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Nick Sevilla
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Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: LUFS while mixing Reply with quote

The only time I have had to account for broadcast levels, is when mixing for broadcasts.

For music, this type of metering should be COMPLETELY ignored.
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jmpace
takin' a dinner break


Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:55 pm    Post subject: Re: LUFS while mixing Reply with quote

Not trying to sound argumentative but... curious why?

If there's a broadcast standard, why isn't there (or is there...? Smile) a loudness standard for mixes?

Why wouldn't this be useful in (at bare minimum) creating a starting point "faders up" mix and getting all individual tracks to be at roughly the same RMS while at the same time eliminating any clipping at the post fader level? Then after your mix is solid you can read the total track volume, and adjust it for -24 LUFS (for example) so that 1) you are not using destructive normalization, and 2) your album has consistent loudness across all of the songs, translating to one less thing the mastering engineer has to deal with. Not to mention these are objective, not subjective adjustments.

I'm just curious here. It sounds like a good idea to me, but if not, why?
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Nick Sevilla
speech impediment


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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Location: Los Angeles California USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: LUFS while mixing Reply with quote

jmpace wrote:
If there's a broadcast standard, why isn't there (or is there...? Smile) a loudness standard for mixes?


Because, Music is Art.

Are you going to tell the Eagles how loud their vocal should be?

Are you going to tell Steve Vai his guitar is too loud?

Are you going to turn an artistic decision into crap?

Not me.

Here is the thing: If you know your equipment, especially analog stuff like tape machines, multi track consoles, and outboard gear, you will KNOW that these things all work at a certain "optimum" level. There is a place in each analog piece of equipment, where it works the best it can, it helps deliver a certain vibe, a certain sound. you end up never misusing the equipment, AKA distorting accidentally, or otherwise messing up the source sounds.

When you know these things, as an engineer, you use them to your ADVANTAGE, but always, ALWAYS you MUST defer to the artists' taste. It is their music, their baby they are making.

I have been in plenty of mixes where more vocal is needed, and we are very close to that edge, where I have to turn ALL OF IT down by 0.5 dB, so that we can get +0.5 dB MORE vocal. Without crapping out the mixbuss.

But to start out by stating something like "the vocal must hit -3dB or whatever on the mixbuss meters" is completely antithetical to making ART. Art is messy. Art is wild. Art does not give a shit about numbers or math. It only cares that it is presented as the artist intended, however it gets there is pretty much irrelevant.

Just my 2 cents.
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Nick Sevilla
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Posts: 4453
Location: Los Angeles California USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:32 pm    Post subject: Re: LUFS while mixing Reply with quote

And just one last thing:

When you are thinking in terms of math, or numbers, or "where is the level on this or that pice of equipment"... you are engaging a different part of your brain, which is NOT the one in charge of artistic stuff, it is the more reasoning side.

That side of the brain needs to be off for as long as possible while mixing.
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vvv
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Joined: 13 May 2003
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Location: Chi

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: LUFS while mixing Reply with quote

Ver' cool NS, but I hafta admit, I might just tell Vai to turn down sometimes. Twisted Evil
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