RegisterRegister
Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages
Log inLog in
FAQ  -  SEARCH  -  MEMBERS  -  FAVORITES  -  PROFILE
Panning: Glyn Johns + 2 close miced toms

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   printer-friendly view    Tape Op Message Board Forum Index -> Recording Techniques
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
JES
tinnitus


Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 1190
Location: Montreal, PQ

PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:11 pm    Post subject: Panning: Glyn Johns + 2 close miced toms Reply with quote

Greetings. I've got some tracks recorded with the "Glyn Johns" setup for overheads but also close mics on the toms (yes, I know, the technique was developed to conserve tracks/mics but that's just how the guy recorded it). I'm doing 10:00 and 4:00 on the overheads and I've been panning the close mics by ear. But is there a standard practice to preserve phase relationships and produce a clear stereo image? They're lower down in the mix but they do add nice punch on fills.

Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
A.David.MacKinnon
mixes from purgatory


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 2924
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: Panning: Glyn Johns + 2 close miced toms Reply with quote

Pan them by ear but watch out for that floor tom mic. I never have luck getting it to work with a Glynn Johns set. It's too close to the side mic and always creates a phase-y mess.
_________________
Dave

http://adavidmackinnon.blogspot.com
http://adavidmackinnon.bandcamp.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JES
tinnitus


Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 1190
Location: Montreal, PQ

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: Panning: Glyn Johns + 2 close miced toms Reply with quote

Yeah, I have been having that problem even with the gate! Thanks. Will just go by ear then.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
A.David.MacKinnon
mixes from purgatory


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 2924
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: Panning: Glyn Johns + 2 close miced toms Reply with quote

Sometimes keeping the close rack mic and dumping the FT is the best move. The Rack is always the weaker tom in a GJ setup.
_________________
Dave

http://adavidmackinnon.blogspot.com
http://adavidmackinnon.bandcamp.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Nick Sevilla
speech impediment


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 4453
Location: Los Angeles California USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:12 am    Post subject: Re: Panning: Glyn Johns + 2 close miced toms Reply with quote

Hi,

The only "standard", is:

"if it sounds good, it is good" - Duke Ellington.

So, if one of the mics makes the whole sound like crap, mute it.

If two microphones are doing nasty phase issues, and you only really need one of them to make the good sound, then mute the other one.

There are no rules really, other than to make sure it sounds good.
_________________
The Song. Nothing else really matters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Drone
buyin' gear


Joined: 18 Dec 2009
Posts: 594
Location: Uranus

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: Panning: Glyn Johns + 2 close miced toms Reply with quote

I did close mic'ing and GJ for a while and ended up just muting the tom mics and falling back on the GJ it sounds so much better, in my normal situation. The other week I had another drummer in and he was so cymbal heavy, I was like, damn, needs to be close mic'd, so I guess it's always situation dependent.

I have a friend who swears the key to GJ is using a dynamic on the floor tom mic.
_________________
The previous statement is from a guy who records his own, and other projects for fun. No money is made.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JES
tinnitus


Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 1190
Location: Montreal, PQ

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: Panning: Glyn Johns + 2 close miced toms Reply with quote

Thanks everyone. I've been getting creative. Mostly overheads, but the close mics with no overheads (except for a distant room mic) have also been useful for a section where the drummer is playing with mallets. Speaking of which -- mallets on toms are really hard to get clear, punchy and authoritative in a full band mix!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
A.David.MacKinnon
mixes from purgatory


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 2924
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: Panning: Glyn Johns + 2 close miced toms Reply with quote

Drone wrote:
.

I have a friend who swears the key to GJ is using a dynamic on the floor tom mic.


My best results have been with a pair of AKG D224s. It's totally drummer and room dependant though. Sometimes it just doesn't work.
_________________
Dave

http://adavidmackinnon.blogspot.com
http://adavidmackinnon.bandcamp.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Gregg Juke
ghost haunting audio students


Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Posts: 3340
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Panning: Glyn Johns + 2 close miced toms Reply with quote

>>>>"if it sounds good, it is good" - Duke Ellington.<<<<

I thought that was Joe Meek(?).

GJ
_________________
Gregg Juke
Nocturnal Productions Music Group
Drum! Magazine Contributor
http://MightyNoStars.com

"He's about to learn the most important lesson in the music business-- 'Never trust people in the music business.' "
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
vvv
zen recordist


Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 7977
Location: Chi

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Panning: Glyn Johns + 2 close miced toms Reply with quote

I've seen it attributed to both, but I reckon more often to Duke E.

I have my own variation, y'know.

"If it sounds like shite, it's mine."
_________________
bandcamp; vlayman;
THD; blog.
I mix with olive juice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Gregg Juke
ghost haunting audio students


Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Posts: 3340
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Panning: Glyn Johns + 2 close miced toms Reply with quote

Kinda like "Dancing about Architecture."

Mine is "Painting about Parenting."

GJ
_________________
Gregg Juke
Nocturnal Productions Music Group
Drum! Magazine Contributor
http://MightyNoStars.com

"He's about to learn the most important lesson in the music business-- 'Never trust people in the music business.' "
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Nick Sevilla
speech impediment


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 4453
Location: Los Angeles California USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Panning: Glyn Johns + 2 close miced toms Reply with quote

Gregg Juke wrote:
>>>>"if it sounds good, it is good" - Duke Ellington.<<<<

I thought that was Joe Meek(?).

GJ


Duke started that nonsense long before Meek was probably even around LOL.

Some attribute it to Steve Albini, so at least we're a few decades before that mistake.
_________________
The Song. Nothing else really matters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
losthighway
carpal tunnel


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 1584

PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Panning: Glyn Johns + 2 close miced toms Reply with quote

A more laborious approach would be to listen to the floor tom on just the overhead and consider if anything's missing. It could be just a little lo-mid, or possibly smack/attack/stick missing. In either case you could try doing some strong cutting, low and or high pass filters on the close tom mic, leaving mainly the missing frequency you're looking for and only putting in as much level from that close mic as you need.

Also you could try scooting the floor tom track/visually aligning it to see if it clears up your image/phase stuff.

ALL of this could easily be tail chasing, but I think it's worth the 15 minutes of muting, un-muting, scrunching up your nose.

One thing I almost always do with any tom track that has any issues is automate it so that it's mostly gone outside of the tom hits.

The other, other thing, is sometimes you can get away with putting a little bump to boost a frequency on the overhead to get what you want out of a drum, without changing the cymbal sound too drastically, at least if it's not boosting really high mids, or treble. This seems inevitable in a lot of minimal mic'ing situations. I figure those Dap Tone guys have to do it sometimes
_________________
Mo' mics mo' problems.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Furnace-Room/292960857423152
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
A.David.MacKinnon
mixes from purgatory


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 2924
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:35 am    Post subject: Re: Panning: Glyn Johns + 2 close miced toms Reply with quote

JES wrote:
mallets on toms are really hard to get clear, punchy and authoritative in a full band mix!


Tell me about it! The kit should probably be tuned for mallets. I don't know if that'd help but I fight it every time so I figure it's likely the source. Room mics make a big difference. Aggressive parallel compression at mix time also helps. Sometime I even run a distortion pedal in parallel. It make everything sit better.
_________________
Dave

http://adavidmackinnon.blogspot.com
http://adavidmackinnon.bandcamp.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   printer-friendly view    Tape Op Message Board Forum Index -> Recording Techniques All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum