Ultimate DAW PC. Cheap, quiet, stable, robust.

[Reminor]

Though I am a TapeOp subscriber for a while it's my first post here. I wanted to share my experience building a fast and non-expensive PC-based DAW. Maybe this story will be of interest for somebody. Many of you probably struggled with instability and hardware issues of PCs you build (at least I hear that all the time on the Net), so did I.

I will leave out the sound card selection because those opinions may vary greatly (as for me I went Delta 66->Delta 1010->RME Multiface and I can recommend those, along with Layla24 as solid cards good for budget-minded recordists).

Anyways I will focus on building an ultimate workstation, which surprisidly fits pretty tight budget. I used to think that crafting your own machine from selected parts is the only way to go.. Read on.

A little side note to add some credibility to my words I am a computer systems engineer with 15+ years. I do computers for a living, day in and day out. And as many of you I do my home recording at night (for almost 5 years). I do mostly acoustic music, but into soft synth and MIDI as well.


With DAW's I went the same old road of trial and error, many times I've been frustrated and angry. Many times I thought it's all in vain. Rings a bell?.. Even with all my computer knowledge sometimes I just could not get through..

I had bought and built several machines. I had a super fast dual-Xeon Dell PowerEdge 1600, with three SCSI 15k RPM Cheetah's in RAID0 and 2Gb of RAM. It was a jet engine even behind in the closed door in the closet. My acoustic tracks were obviously ruined. I sold it. BTW, Sonar3 which I used still does not support multi-processors (no matter what they claim). As far as I know there's little support from other apps. Generally speaking, it is not wise to buy a multi-CPU machine for DAW (yet).

I had built a custom fancy machine in Aluminum Lian-Li case with a silent SuperTornado power supply, Zalman VGA cooler, silent hard drives (Seagate 7200), etc. Dampen the panels with glued mouse pads in an attempt to make it quieter. All weird stuff. It was overheating so I added more fans, started fight noise.. Never got it to work stable and quiet enough. Got tired of it. Sold it in parts.

Now to make long story short here's what I ended up with. Now I do have three machines of the same kind in my house. One is a 24x7 server. Another is a hardcore gaming machine (with ATi 9800SE->modded to Pro). And the studio DAW. Fast, silent, robust and cheap!

OK. Here it is -- Dell PowerEdge 400sc. It is positioned as a server, but in fact it is an Intel 875-based P4 machine with dual DDR support and 800MHz FSB (Front Serial Bus). Dell Small Business has deals and rebates for this model popping up frequently. Track the deals with something like Techbargains.com and jump on it when something's up.

The last one 2.8GHz/800FSB/no-operating-system machine I got for $300 shipped after rebate. Not bad.


This model enjoys quite a movement and there is a lot of followers. Read the forums at www.aaltonen.us. Lots of usefull info for owners and prospective buyers.

This machine is dead QUIET even if you add highly recommended WD Raptor 73Gb SATA hard drive ($195 after rebate at www.NewEgg.com ). This is the fastest drive you can get now. Period.
It is also very quiet unlike its smaller brother Raptor 32Gb (see www.storagereview.com)

Amazingly, all components inside of 400sc are running cool to touch. I have no idea how they do it with just one case fan and one PSU fan. But it's a fact.

Then get a 1Gb memory kit (2x512Mb) -- Kingston KTD-WS360A/1G ($162, http://shop.kingston.com ) and put it in Dual DDR400 mode. Can't get faster than that nowadays. All your FXs will have plenty enough memory bandwidth. Softsynth like Halion or VSampler3 will be happy, too.

Get a used Matrox G400 or G450 AGP video card with dual-monitor support. Absolutely silent (fan-less). I got mine for $10 off eBay. Dual monitor is a must have for me -- so much easier and faster to work.

Add your fav sound card and boy you'll be thanking me day in and day out.


Yours,
Remi

P.S. As for the operating system I can recommend Microsoft Windows 2003 Server converted into workstation (read a simple guide at http://www.msfn.org/win2k3/). Yes, it is MUCH better than XP.

[JES]

Wow. That is one cheap, fast, easy to set up computer. I've been planning to replace my mac but you are making me think otherwise.

My question is about drivers. If you're running Win2K3, what do you do for soundcard drivers? I assume most companies aren't making drivers for Win2k3.

Also, there are tons of optimization tricks for WinXP if you're going to use it for audio. Is this an issue on your machine? And what DAW software/plugins do you run?

Thanks!

--JES

[Reminor]

Windows 2003 Server is essentially a newer XP version with ALL CRAP TURNED OFF by default. No annoying MSN Messenger popping up, not much those dolly visuals, and all that stuff. It's a business oriented OS, not compromised and tweaked to appeal to a 13-year old girl wanting to IM her friends and DL mp3's.

Under the hood it is reworked and optimized a lot. It is highly efficient with resources. It takes only 84Mb of RAM to boot. And its stability is out of this world (out of Microsoft world I should say ). There are still some services like Wireless Service which needs to be adjusted (disabled). But again in comparison with XP it is all peanuts.

That all makes it a viable upgrade. Microsoft gives 120-day free trial copy for Windows 2003 Server. You owe yourself to try it eventually. You'll see why I consider it the best PC DAW platform to-date. It is a bit on the expensive side, but for Server 2000 upgraders the cost is bearable.

All drivers for XP work just fine in 2003.

I mentioned I use RME Multiface and I am happy with its stability. Sound card drivers is a big part of the whole equation (so if you have a different card, YMMV -- Your Mileage May Vary).
I tried a lot of different software products and demo versions -- Sonar3, Cubase SX, VSampler3, HALion, Samplitude, Fruity Loops Studio, Adobe Audition, GigaStudio 160, Reason, FM, all kinds of DX and VST plugins, etc., etc. etc. -- You name it. I did not try ProTools or Nuendo. I saw ZERO problems with my hardware. I know it sounds like a sales pitch, but belileve me I am not affiliated with DELL, or Microsoft, in any way. I am just giving you a friendly advice. It's up to you to follow or not.

Peace,
Remi

P.S. Don't forget to format your audio hard drive (or any hard drive I'd say) with maximum sector size - 64k. This is important as you need to stream continuous flow of large data chunks. You'll loose some drive capacity as the disk will allocate 64k even for a 2kb file, but for audio with all those megabytes it is not important. You'll gain speed big time.

Hint. You cannot select that large cluster size when formatting disk from Windows Explorer -- instead go to Disk Management applet (right click My Computer, select Manage, go to Disk Management). Ther you can select Format with cluster size 64k.

[JES]

Hey thanks. It's going to be a couple more weeks before I make any decisions regarding computers but if I get serious, I'll write you back with more questions.

Best,
--JES

[mingus2112]

So here's the big question. Using Sonar 3.1.1. . .will the CPU usage drop any when running 2003 vs XP? That's what i'm looking for. More plugin power!

[Reminor]

Here is the link for free eval copy of Windows 2003 Server:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2 ... fault.mspx\

There's also a chance you can get a FREE fully functional copy of MS Server 2003 after attending free T2 MS Partner seminars (more http://www.connect-ms.com/msts2/default.asp ). Do more research on that. Some folks at Fatwallet forums reportedly got it. See here.

A nice (and rather unexpected) way to beat the official MS price ($999) for Windows 2003 Server is look up on eBay, too.

[d.olivier]

thank you. i have also wanted to go to the pc. i looked at the dell website, and was wondering about a raid set-up with the harddrive you recommended. i also edit video and would want to invest in huge amounts of hardrive space. is the raid controller worth it? and what sort of problems might i run into?

[hiwatt25]

Okay, so I decided to give the 400SC a try based on this thread and let me just say it really is a great machine. If you know a bit about computers, you can get a really solid pc foundation and build upon it by adding the components you want and tailoring it to your specific needs.

I have a family and just record for fun so my machine has to perform many functions but I can tell you it's working without a hitch. I'm running win xp pro with Cubase SX and not a bit of trouble. In the future I'll add a newer video card and probably some ram but that's it.

Oh and on the recording side, it's whisper quiet. I've got it under a desk and sometimes can't tell when it's on. Depending on the sensitivity of your mic, you may or may not be able to do vocals in the same room but everything else would be a breeze. Just my two cents.

[Flight Feathers]

i have to concur about the dell machines. i have a new p4 3.0 dimension 8300 and it very stable and VERY quiet. if you stick it under a desk or in a closet, its noise floor is negligable.

i gave 2003 server a shot, and i'm not ready for it yet (i do ASP/SQL server development for a living so i need the server install). i found a lot of software wouldn't install because it was not a recognized os. also, my logitach mouse and lexmark printer didn't have drivers for 2003. sometimes you can install the xp drivers onto 2k3 server, sometimes you can't. but in theory it makes sense to use the server os as a DAW.

[Reminor]

I am glad that my original post helped some people to get going with PC DAW. I told you the machine is great, way to go!

I would like to add a couple of things.

Even though the machine comes with a decent low-end PCI video card from ATi you do need to get an inexpensive AGP card and take that PCI video card out. The reason is simple -- you really want to off-load video tasks from the PCI bus and dedicate your PCI solely for your audio processing (assuming you have a PCI based sound card, for those who don't this point is less critical). So the AGP for video is the way to go to make things run smoother.

Note, the 400sc motherboard does not have a firewire option on-board, so those firewire sound card owners need to add a firewire interface to the workstation. Most likely it will be a PCI card. That means the tip above holds true even for firewire recordists.


Secondly, keep in mind that those 400SC with CPU faster than 3.2GHz come with a heat-pipe type heatsink and a DIFFERENT (reportedly LOUDER) processor fan. Check www.aaltonen.us for more details. So price/performance/noise-wise I think 2.8GHz/800FSB is a current winner.

Just some thoughts.
Enjoy your workstations!

[brainfreezebob]

I just cancelled a big order from new egg (was going to build my first PC) after I read this post. How do you go about getting the system on the cheap, though? I want to go with the 2.8, but the lowest I can seem to get it down to is 499.

[brainfreezebob]

Man, I'd also love to get that 1gig kington ram kit for 160 bucks. It's currently 250.00.

[Reminor]

... I want to go with the 2.8, but the lowest I can seem to get it down to is 499.

A quick pull. Currently the chapest config at Dell Small Business is $299 (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/product ... l=en&s=bsd). It's probably a Celeron. Keep looking at the deals. Dell usually throws in some sweet deals/rebates at the end of month.

Again, deals are NOT what's guaranteed, a great price usualy is what you are LUCKY to score. Often times the sweetest deals last for just an hour or two -- I saw it many times. For example, when the old rebate is still valid, and they post a new one, or when you can get a free CPU upgrade with free shipping, etc.. Usually Dell quickly realizes a problem and pulls the deal out. But if you are swift in, they usually honor the deal (though I once had a dream powerful 3.2GHz PC for ~$300 cancelled by Dell after two days after I placed the order, because they are "not responsible for pricing errors on their site". Bummer, but they can do that, and rightfully so.


Here's a good example for you. For my last machine I waited for 4 days for a FREE SHIPPING coupon to show up. I had a nice 400sc specked out sitting in my shopping cart at dell.com. But I kept waiting (again there's no guarantee on anything there, so it's your risk.). When the free shipping coupon showed up on their site they pulled off the config with free CPU upgrade (the one I was after). Because I had it in my shopping cart I was able to apply the free shipping code to the config I had, i.e. confg no longer possible if you started from scratch. This way I saved additional $99 on shipping. Same day the rebate was expiring, but my timing was right and I scored that, too.

Same aproach goes for memory deals (and other parts, and generaly all other goods). Keep your eyes open and learn how to shop online. I scored my memory kit off a tip from a guy on www.aaltonen.us forums. They posted a long URL with a special promo code inside, and by using that link I was able to get a bigger discount.

It is all ABC of online shopping and I encourage you to learn it eventually. Keep checking the deals at www.techbargains.com, www.fatwallet.com (esp. their Hot Deals forum, very dynamic comunity), www.xpbargains.com and other "deals" sites.

Happy hunting.

[brainfreezebob]

Thanks. I need to stay patient. I danced around the PC parts I was buying on New Egg for about a month, then finally ordered last night, only to read this post and change my mind. Thanks for the tip.

[garrigus]

And if you're not inclined to build your own, you may want to have someone do it for you. I've never used them, but a number of my readers have raved about this place... www.dawbox.com.

In addition, check out my article entitled 'The New DigiFreq Audio PC' in issue 18 of DigiFreq. You can get the issue for free at:
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/issues.asp

Best regards,
Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of Cakewalk, Sound Forge and Sound Forge 6, SONAR, SONAR 2 and SONAR 3 Power! books. All books 30% off at:
http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq. Win a free copy of Native Instruments' INTAKT software loop sampler and learn cool music technology tips and techniques by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... over 15,000 readers can't be wrong! Go to:
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/