Finding the weak link: mic vs. pre

[percussion boy]

As I said in the dbx 160 thread, I'm in the process of migrating from computer recording to my beautiful Otari. I know from past experience I need a compressor, which I don't have at the moment.

Here's an ignorant but honest question:

I'd like to improve my vocal chain. My standard for greatness would be the soul and reggae albums of the 70s, which outside of Lee Perry were mostly done on what we'd now consider pro vintage gear.

What's not working now is that the voice lacks presence. The best result I've had so far has been achieved by using only bass, digital piano, drums, and vox, with the top rolled off the piano using a lowpass filter. Any other kind of mid-rangey overdub in the middle of the stereo image (e.g., synth), and the vocal ceases to be the center of attention.

Right now I have a prosumer board (A&H MixWizard 20-8) for pres. My LDCs are a Gefell UM70s and an AKG 3000B; the 3000B suits my low voice better, and my SDC (Gefell M300) is pretty good for vox too, but neither one is quite what I want through my current pres.

Given only one choice, would you:

a) Try getting a decent one channel pre, like a Neve-clone?
b) Try getting a pricier compressor than I planned, one with some color (like an 1176), and run it through the board pres I have?
c) Try getting a different LDC, again to go through my present board pres?

How do I figure out where the weakest link is in my current chain?

[honkyjonk]

I'd say you need a compressor more than anything else right now. I guess you're deciding whether to get a super awesome one like an 1176 or maybe something less expensive and upgrading your pres instead?

While the 1176 is something you'd probably never re-sell, and thereby a good buy, there's a lot of el cheopo compressors that will give a vocal more presence.

And while something like a neve pre may make a vocal sound thicker, it will never level out dynamics like a compressor.

An 1176 is so awesome though. After I got one I remember making a post about how I wished I'd got one earlier. Instead of a few other signal chain upgrades. It just made placing things in a mix a lot easier. But i don't know. That was just me.

This may be a little off-topic, but do you ever use dynamic mics with your voice? I almost always do. I just like em better with my voice because I don't want every frequency in my voice represented in the way that a condensor most often represents those frequencies. Might be something to try.

[percussion boy]

HJ: Thanks for the thoughtful response.

I'd say you need a compressor more than anything else right now. I guess you're deciding whether to get a super awesome one like an 1176 or maybe something less expensive and upgrading your pres instead?

Exactly. Or possibly a cheaper comp, no pre, and another mic.

While the 1176 is something you'd probably never re-sell, and thereby a good buy, there's a lot of el cheopo compressors that will give a vocal more presence.

Such as? I've searched the board, but not sure what you've got in mind.

An 1176 is so awesome though. After I got one I remember making a post about how I wished I'd got one earlier. Instead of a few other signal chain upgrades. It just made placing things in a mix a lot easier. But i don't know. That was just me.

Just you and half the recording industry . . .

This may be a little off-topic, but do you ever use dynamic mics with your voice?

So far it hasn't worked for me, but for all I know it's a preamp or vocal technique issue. The 57 works great on falsetto bg vox but seems to bring out the ugly nasal peaks in my natural voice. The 441 is just kinda good and neutral.

What I like about the m300 is that it adds some highs I don't naturally have, so the vocal stands out more. It also attenuates the lows, though, which is a problem. I'm fine without proximity effect, but need the natural lows in my voice to make it to tape.

My mind wanders to the idea of trying one of the little Oktavas, someone did that . . .

Anyway, thanks again.

[jajjguy]

I think dynamic mics rely more heavily on having a good pre than condensors. Condensors certainly appreciate a good pre, but a dynamic can just seem like a piece o crap till you put it through something decent. (Not saying anything about the A&H pres, which I've never used.)

[spiral]

Lee Perry made records on off-the-shelf mid-level audio gear (small Soundcraft board and Teac 4track) but he was just really good. If anyone famous embodies the TapeOp ethic to me it is Lee Perry. He used what he had, honed his skills and saw no limitations.

[TapeOpLarry]

More mics. When I'm setting up for a vocal session I'll run some through up to 9 different mics and they always do diff things to diff voices. The more mics you have the more you can record.

[New Orleans Steve]

I think an Avalon 737 will give you what you need. There are several therads here and some do not like it as much as people did at one time. In other words, this unit does not seem to hold the high regard as it once did. But I dont see how you could regret it. for about the same $ as the 1176 you get the whole chain. I think the EQ is it's best feature. The rest is A O.K., especally for voice. And the E.Q. will do wonders for other tracks as well.
I'm working with an artist now and we use a Beyer M88 most often. Indeed I agree the pre choice seems to have more effect on dynamic mics.
The chain often is M88 to a Demeter pre to a ART Vactrol to tape. The ART is the best thig I have for voice. Almost always it works well.
Steve

check us out on line www.frenchmenstreetrecords.com

[darjama]

As someone who's done a lot of bedroom recordings where the vocal sound is the weakest link, I'd suggest taking the room you're recording under consideration. If you've got alot of not-nice echos and phase problems where you're recording, try moving to another room, another part of the room, etc. This also plays into the suggestion for a dynamic mic, which without the sensitivity of a LDC won't pick up as much room ambiance..

[schnozzle]

So...if one were to agree than on a particular voice (mine, in this case) a better-quality LD dynamic sounded much much better than a middling-expensive condenser, what would be some qualities in a preamp that would flatter the dynamic?