Mixing desk opinions

[Wild Bill]

I have a small project studio that I am thinking of upgrading.
I presently have a TASCAM 1/2 " 8 channel reel to reel and a presonus firestation. I'm going to add a 24 channel HD recorder to track on. I will be able to move the files to a DAW for editing, I've always maintained an anaalog signal path for mixing, outboard hardware effects, etc.

Presently I have a Behringer UB2442 as my recording/mixing desk, but will need to expand to a 24/48 format mixer to do the same routing. I've been looking mainly at three mixers amd would like to get some opionios, good or bad, about them.

Mixer 1: Behringer MX9000 $1300.00 - New Only-
Mixer 2: Mackie 24/8 (Meter Bridge option?) $2700.00 new $1500.00-2000.00 used
Mixer 3: Soundcraft GhostLE24 (Meter Bridge option?) $4500.00 new $2000.00-3500.00 used

I would rather spend the extra money on outboad gear/mics than a mixer but am worried about the summing circuits in the mixing buss and possibly some durabilty issues. I'm am custom building Neve,Jensen and API preamps little by little so the board pres are not as much of an issue, but it will be a while before I get to EQ to match each channel, so I'll be using the board for the foreseeble future. Maybe I'll build 1 or 2 channels of Pultec passive for special applications, I'm not as sure about that right now. Comprssors will likely be befoe them.

Well opinions, anyone?
Forget the analog path?
Patch the existing mixer?
Possibly some other mixer I'm not aware of.
Soundtracs are cool, but harder to find.

A good used dealer, midwest (Chicago) location is ideal to minimize shipping damage?

Thanks in advance.
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Bill~~~

[Everybody's X]

there are several soundtracs mixers on the 'bay right now.
My suggestion would be to get a series 8 topaz, mine sounds indredible, eq's are kick ass and I paid $1200 for it and it blows away anything else in that pricerange




http://search.ebay.com/soundtracs_W0QQsosortpropertyZ1

I assume the rest of their line is very good too

My buddy just bought a sweet ghost and it is very nice too although a bit more costly

[xonlocust]

rogue music has a few soundtracs for cheap now too: http://www.roguemusic.com/gear_audio_02.html

i have an MR which is pretty neat too. i've ocassionaly seen good stuff come in/out of "the music store" on irving park rd. they often have ads in trading times. maybe gand music in northfield, but i havent really seen anything used out there. keep an eye on craigslist.

good luck!
nick

[Everybody's X]

Yep theres a topaz 32/8 for $1250


DO IT MAN! DO IT!

[Wild Bill]

The Topaz?
That's my ideal board. Both good value and quality. I wish I had the cash in my pocket. I'm waiting for some money ($12,000.00)to come in. The check is is supposed to be here within 30 days. The story of my life, but you have confirmed my suspicions about the "M" and "B" mixers.

Maybe if I sweet talk the old lady when she comes home (LOL)

I know the folks at "the music store" and will call him up.
I'll also look up the other place.

Thanks a lot.

Any other opinions are valued.
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Bill~~~

[GLEA]

There's a Ghost on e-bay now. 24 with 24 expander, and meter bridge. No bids yesterday starting at $3500. I paid that much for my 32 with bridge and midi control (with I still haven't had time to sort out).

Works like a champ. The first mixes I've been doing on it have come out well. No fuss, no muss
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[@¶,*ƒƒƒ&™]

"Mixing Desk" is a big set of words. I think SSL, Neve and perhaps API when I do. In light of all those jiffy automation features I get with one of those, I get much the same from a whole host of software these days. I think mixing widgets may be superior and can be better had in that digital domain. Sounds like what you are actually looking for is a console to 'track' with or 'monitor' through. Am I wrong? Why not get a set of Neve line amps and be done with it? Guess we need to discuss what you're recording to to talk further about this.
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[Wild Bill]

[@¶,*ƒƒƒ&™]

There is a real niche for some great console manufacturer to deliver a sidecar with 8 to 16 inputs and either 8 to 16 buss outs or 8 to 16 direct outs. Honestly, the architecture of something like that can't be that difficult. If Trident can make an 8 channel console for $1900, then why can't it have 8 outputs instead of being a stereo out unit? Seem retarded to me. I guess if they did that, then they couldn't sell you their individual channel strips. Last I heard, they had exclusive distribution through Guitar Center, but I have yet to see any of their gear in one of those stores, so it makes one wonder how much they are selling. With a line out the door at the college I teach recording at to take these classes, a company like Trident could make money had over fist delivering first rate product to a potentially savvy consumer and not have to rely on the professional industry to support them. Hell, Focusrite ought to have an 8 channel unit featuring the ISA 110 modules. Seems like a no brainer to me.

And by the way, can someone explain to me why Krispy Kreme donuts has gone with distributing to stores as opposed to opening stand alone stores that make their donuts? The magic of those donuts is the first few hours after they made. Shipping them in a box to a grocery store is no better than Hostess or Little Debbie. Why compete with that? I would have thought a company like would know what they were good at. I mean, look at Cinnabon?

God, this reads like a rant. Sorry.
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[antilog]

So anyway, figure out if you want to mix in or out of the box. If you mix in, i would recommend getting a good controller, to make your hands happy. Mixing with a mouse only is like playing drums with one finger.

I mix in the box, but have recently been breaking out of it.

General wisdom is to stay away from behringer mixers. Personally, I had an 8 channel behry, and the right channel of the main buss crapped out after a month.... couldn't imagine 24 channels of that
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[jtienhaara]

I'll give you my run-down on the Mackie 24/8, for whatever it's worth. Take it with a grain of salt 'cuz I don't have experience with any pricey boards.

Mic Pres
No colour, very natural sounding.

The line-ins are always +4 and the tape ins are +4 / -10 switchable. This is stupid. Every synth, DI and guitar pedal I have ever plugged in is -10 (except for Mesa Boogie amps...). If I had been smart when I wired up my Smackie, I would have taken this into consideration and put the "tape" signals into "line" inputs and vice-versa.

The mic / line switches are also in a horrible position. Right in the middle of a mess of cables. Brilliant!


EQ
Good enough. It will turn your audio into sawdust at 3 o'clock or higher. But that's about an 8 dB boost or more, so... Should never be necessary anyway.

(These days I do most things in the box, and get somewhat better results from the stock CreamWare PEQ4. I'm in the process of switching to a plugin called The Pultecator by a small developer named Celmo, and although I can't compare it to outboard Pultecs, It certainly handles very well even at a boost of 12 dB.)


Levels
I've heard lots of people bitch about lack of headroom. Certainly when I mixed "out of the box" I had problems.

IIRC output is generally +0 dBu. Pretty stupid.

The pseudo-balancing scheme will lose you a few dB.

Input gain / trim has always been enough for me, though I've never used ribbon mics...


Random miscellany
Busing is very flexible. Specs and manual are respectable. The plate over the 8/mix bus level meters comes off way too easily.

Personally I don't see a need for the meterbridge, since I rely on my A-D's meters and also in-the-box meters. Mind you I do have a ton of needle meters sitting in 2 boxes awaiting some DIY time... Oh, and the pinouts for the meterbridge ribbon cables is pretty trivial, if you decide to head down that fun path.


Anyway that's my take on the Smackie. All in all I'd argue it's got great bang for the buck. And hey... If Primus can record Tales From the Punchbowl on it, I say it's gotta be "good enough".

Whether there's better though --

$0.02,

Johann

[Al]

[Wild Bill]

Thanks for all the imput.

I guess I have it all hashed out now.

I'm gonna keep the analog mix path and go with a used GhostLE24 or Ghost LE32 if I can find one. If not then I guess it will be a ne Ghost LE24. The Topaz looks attractive but parts are now made in China. Ummm, I'm not a snob but I DO worry about parts supply if and when I need to find them. I have 25+ years as a service engineer for Siemens Medical Imaging equipment so I'm confident I can keep a board or desk alive as long as there are parts available.

That post about the mackie cinched it for me... Ergonomics are important for work throughput, even if it's a non-commercial studio!!!

Thanks again for all the input. I've asked this question on several forums and TAPEOP has given me the most level headed and informed views. I think I'll hang out here more often.
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Bill~~~

[kayagum]

[antilog]