Using Multi-Band EQ to fix mixing environment?

el_scorcho · audio school Joined: 06 Aug 2003 Posts: 3

Hey all...newbie here.

I am thinking of using a Multi-Band EQ to help with my mixing environment. My delimma is that my control room is VERY small, thus creating Bass Frequency issues. Mixes sound good in the room, then sound fairly bass heavy in, say, a car stereo.

Would an EQ help? Can anyone recommend a certain EQ for this situation?

THANKS!

Ethan Winer

Scorch,

> Would an EQ help? <

No, EQ can never fix room problems. The only viable solution is acoustic treatment, especially bass traps. For the complete story see my Acoustics FAQ, linked here (tenth article in the list):

www.ethanwiner.com/articles.html

--Ethan
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cassembler

Well, saying EQ can NEVER fix a room problem is a little harsh; FOH engineers use eq all the time to compensate for room abnormalities. A quick fix might be to see if your monitors have a "bass compensation" switch and add a little more of that in, so that you hold back on the bass a little more.

I agree though that the acoustics of your environment would be the highest recommended fix.

EDIT: As well, consider the fact that even the best EQ is going to impart phasing issues, specifically phase distortion, on your speakers (it only affects what you're hearing). Otherwise, EQ would likely be a preferred method of acoustic adjustment.
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stillafool · re-cappin' neve Joined: 25 Jun 2003 Posts: 735

It sounds like you have the opposite problem -- if you're mixes sound bass heavy outside your room, you're adding bass (which would imply a bass deficient room). I'm not an expert on this, but I've been told you can make the problem worse by putting an eq into your monitoring chain. I've decided to run a line out of my mixing room (a former bedroom), so I can see what my mix sounds like in my living room on different stereo systems, in the hall, etc.

Toddf

Try getting a sound level meter, cheap at radio shack or a borrow or buy a frequency analyzer. Do some searches about how to use them to tune a room. Try to fix the room itself first then try different speakers and or EQ. I have used 2 mono White EQ's that work good for this purpose. Good Luck Todd F.
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Electricide

Yes, if your mixes appear bass-heavy, it means your room is bass-lite, e.g. cancelling bass frequencies. Increasing the gain of those frequencies will not change the fact that they get cancelled: the stronger output from your speakers will meet a consequently and equally strong reflection of those frequencies from your walls. The only way to get more bass is to decrease the reflections, so that the initial bass waves aren't getting cancelled. Bass traps, etc.

Ethan Winer

Cass,

> FOH engineers use eq all the time to compensate for room abnormalities. <

Excellent point. The big difference between EQ in a concert hall and EQ in a small control room is the small room has far more serious low frequency cancellations due to the much closer proximity of the walls. Also, modes in a huge room are basically irrelevant, compared to a studio that has severe peaks and dips in the low end response caused by a much larger mode spacing.

--Ethan
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**joel hamilton**

I know of many professional studios that simply do NOT have the space for a big, phisically perfect, tuned, control room that use white passive's for tuning the monitors. I have gotten some really good mixes out of places like that. If you cant move the walls...

A guy named steve derr tuned a room i mixed in a lot years back. The frequency points on the white eq matched up exactly to the RTA he was using with B&O measurement mics. That room sounded great and was pretty damn small.

If this is a listening environment that only YOU use, I would just save the money and listen to a LOT of cd's in your space that you think sound good (frequency balance wise) in other spaces.

Listen to your favorite CD in your car, then listen to it in your space.

No studio control room is without its little quirks. You just have to know if it is a 5 db "quirk" at 8k, or a 9 db "quirk" at 160.... etc.
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cassembler

Ethan Winer

Joel,

> many professional studios that simply do NOT have the space for a big, phisically perfect, tuned, control room that use white passive's <

These days you can do a proper job for about the same cost as a pair of high-end EQs, maybe even less.

> You just have to know if it is a 5 db "quirk" at 8k, or a 9 db "quirk" at 160 <

Yes, and many great mixes have been done in less than perfect spaces, even small spaces. Of course, the problems solved by acoustic treatment are not only frequency response issues, though that's probably the biggest offender. But general muddiness and lack of note definition on bass instruments is another big problem that can be solved easily and completely by proper treatment.

I truly believe that room treatment and acoustics are the "next big thing" in the audio field, as more and more people recognize that proper treatment will help their mixes far more than the latest outboard electronic doodad.

--Ethan
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Professor

I'd say that El Scorcho's troubles are not related to poor equalizing of the monitors or poor room acoustics as much as they are related to poor choice of monitor speakers. He isn't adding or deleting mid-range frequencies because of room modes, he is adding too much bass because his speakers probably only extend down to 80Hz at -5 and maybe 60Hz at -10, if they even go that low.
Full range, linear monitors would be the first step, followed by a thorough exploration of the room with pink noise and an RTA. Then he might move the RTA around the room and find where the frequencies are shifting and treat them accordingly. Then he might drop a monitor EQ in to balance the response at the primary listening position.
But let's face it, that's not going to happen if this is a home studio, especially if it doubles as perhaps a bedroom or den.

Joel is absolutely right that an equalizer to properly tune the monitors will help, but it won't cure the hole in the bass.
Ethan is absolutely right that acoustical treatment is very important, but would you really want to sell a bass trap to someone who is adding too much bass to compensate for crappy monitors? You would ship the thing out, it wouldn't help, and he would return it and never want to try acoustic treatment again.
Getting more familiar with the monitors through listening to reference CDs is a good suggestion, but even that won't really help if the bass tones he is using don't have the same upper harmonics as the reference.

In the end, it comes down to getting away from these ridiculous little two-way monitor systems with 6 or 8 inch poly woofers trying to hit every frequency below 1.2kHz. Stepping up to a JBL 4410 or 4412 three-way studio monitor is not that expensive, and the difference it will make in both the bass and midrange is huge, and those speakers are only hitting 45Hz at -2dB. There is a huge difference between a two-way, three-way and four-way system and that is the first step in correcting monitoring abnormalities.

And don't follow this up with some crap about how a 'good engineer' can mix a great album on NS-10s. Beginner engineers can't. And 'good engineers' also reference mixes to lots of systems and send their work on to mastering houses who have speakers that reproduce from DC to light with the room acoustics and proper tuning already in place.

-Jeremy[/u]

Kevin Kitchel

I can only find ONE place that sells 703/705 in my town, and they want a hell of a lot for it! I called owens-corning, and they weren't any help either!

Ethan Winer

Jeremy,

> Ethan is absolutely right that acoustical treatment is very important, but would you really want to sell a bass trap to someone who is adding too much bass to compensate for crappy monitors? <

You're right that until we know what kind of speakers Scorch is using, this is all acedemic. Is Scorch even still watching? Smile

I disagree that speakers are always more important than bass traps. Even relatively low cost speakers can reproduce down to at least 80 Hz, and that's about where good bass traps also begin working effectively. The real issue for most people isn't an overall lack of bass due to acoustic problems, but rather the many peaks and dips that riddle the range from about 70 to 300 Hz. That is, 80 Hz is down 10 dB, 105 Hz is up 4 dB, 125 Hz is down 8 dB and so forth.

But I surely agree that having good loudspeakers is very important!

--Ethan
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el_scorcho · audio school Joined: 06 Aug 2003 Posts: 3

Wow, thanks for all the great info.

Here's some more:

I'm using Tannoy Active Reference Monitors. http://www.tannoy.com/product.cfm?ID=48

I have no sub woofer, and here's the really bad news...

My control room dimentions are: 7'x7'x7'

yikes!?!?

Ethan Winer

Scorch,

> I'm using Tannoy Active Reference Monitors. <

The response is claimed to go down to 62 Hz, but they don't say by how many dB it's down. Which is never a good sign. But let's assume it's no more than 3 dB down at 62 Hz.

> My control room dimentions are: 7'x7'x7' <

Yes that is indeed small, but still fixable with enough bass trapping. Again, the real problem - especially in a small room - is the many peaks and dips throughout the bass range, not the overall low end rolloff.

--Ethan
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