Screen Refresh blues

[Mr. Dipity]

About halfway through most tracks, I've ended up with so much crap going on on the screen that the graphic refresh of Nuendo starts taking a second or more - every time I pick something up or resize the zoom. As you can imagine, this gets old fast. And it's usually happened before I've even >started< on the final mix automation.

I'll confess, I've had to 'finished' songs incomplete due to time constraints and because I'm so tired of dealing with this refresh B.S.

Is there anything I can do?

I've got a decent AGP ATI Radeon graphics card. It's a year or so old, but all grapahics card improvements I have seen focus on 3d acceleration, rather than 2d rendering. (Yes, hardware accel is a full, etc, etc)

Furthermore, I'm not even sure that the hardware is the bottle neck - it may be that Nuendo is doing this all in software.

Help.....help.......

[AnalogElectric]

What are you working in?
XP? Mac?

What version of Nuendo?
Nuendo 2.2.0.39? Nuendo 3? or is it an older Nuendo version?

Gimmie some computer specs here so I can help you out, hopefully.

I run both XP and OSX, btw.

-- Adam Lazlo

[apropos of nothing]

Steinberg has long acknowledged that their software has problems with screen redraws.

The best thing to do is position the screen so that it doesn't have to refresh. In other words, if you're working with a specific section, zoom in on that section, and set some loop points. If you're working with the whole song, zoom out so that the whole song is showing. That way it becomes a non-issue.

I think its time for me to do a wipe&reinstall on my system. I've been getting a lot of system crashes. Gets old in a hurry. My condolences to you.

[Mr. Dipity]

What are you working in?
XP? Mac?

What version of Nuendo?
Nuendo 2.2.0.39? Nuendo 3? or is it an older Nuendo version?

Gimmie some computer specs here so I can help you out, hopefully.

I run both XP and OSX, btw.

-- Adam Lazlo

XP Nuendo 2.2
2.8 Ghz, 2 gigs RAM
ATI 9600(?) AGP card (something like that. Not a slouce of a card, but more than 12 months old. I'm convinced it's not the problem.)

[Mr. Dipity]

Steinberg has long acknowledged that their software has problems with screen redraws.

The best thing to do is position the screen so that it doesn't have to refresh. In other words, if you're working with a specific section, zoom in on that section, and set some loop points. If you're working with the whole song, zoom out so that the whole song is showing. That way it becomes a non-issue.

I was afraid of that. However, when you have 30+ tracks there stops being a way to access them all without scrolling around. :<

I think its time for me to do a wipe&reinstall on my system. I've been getting a lot of system crashes. Gets old in a hurry. My condolences to you.

Ouch. My commiserations...

[apropos of nothing]

Um, have you checked your VST resource meter? You might try closing some plug-ins whilst watching the meter, and see if anything causes it to spike or drop. Get one too many going, or get a good pig happening, and its all over.

Thirty tracks man! I hit fifty once, but that was for a symphonic prog madhouse with sections in fifteen. What kind of craziness are you working on over there?

Are you freezing/rendering your tracks as you go?

[misterock]

I'm sure you've already tried this, but wtf:

***To switch your display to 256 colors
Some games and other software programs require that your monitor be set to 256 colors, or they run better in 256 colors. Many of those programs will switch your monitor to 256 colors automatically when you start the program. For those that don't, follow the steps below if you want to switch the display temporarily while the game or program is running.

On your desktop or on the Start menu, right-click the game or other program that you want to run in 256 colors, and then click Properties.
Click the Compatibility tab.
Select the Run in 256 colors check box.
Notes

The screen will revert to your default color quality when you close the program.
Try switching to 256 colors if your software program shows the wrong color or the graphics redraw slowly.
If your software program appears in a small window in the center of your screen, you can increase its size by changing your screen resolution temporarily. Follow the procedure above, but in step 3 select the Run in 640x480 screen resolution check box. Your screen resolution will revert to its previous resolution when you close the program.
The Compatibility tab is available only for programs or games located on your computer's hard disk. It is not available if the program is stored on a floppy disk, compact disk, or a network.****

I use protools on a G4 but own a few XP machines as well. In PTLE they always tell you to use the least colors possible. I also noticed you can accelerate the hardware in XP, don't know if this will help or hurt, good luck.

[Slider]

I have the same thing happening in mixer view.
I have a really powerful Dual Opteron, Tyan 2885 system, with the EXACT SAME video card as you.
I'm thinking it's the Radeon 9600.
I'm on XP as well.

[Slider]

Nuendo 2.2.39

[AnalogElectric]

Yup, what apropos of nothing and misterock said. Nuendo 2 has issues with refresh (especially in a Mac but I have noticed it in XP as well).

The better the video card, actually, the worse it is.

Nuendo 3 fixed a lot of refresh issues, supposedly. When I get it in the next few weeks I'll try and post an update on performance.

-- Adam Lazlo

[high tek]

is there any chance its the monitor?
is it LCD?

i know some are a lot better than others, but i guess if its only happening at high track counts.......

[Slider]

256 freaks out my screen. it looks like a bad photoshop plugin.
It was worth a shot.
I'm still trying to track this down before I buy a cheap ass video card to see if that was the problem.

I'm also trying the latest Radeon 9600 drivers today, so I'll report back tonight.
I don't seem to have a problem in project view.
I can zoom in and out like crazy with no issues.
But I get a freese up for about a second when in mixer view every once in a while.
Strange.
I can't find anyone else with this issue.
Any one else have any idea's?

[AnalogElectric]

You can also try the Nuendo forums, they're mighty helpful.

www.nuendo.com

-- Adam Lazlo

[Mr. Dipity]

I'm sure you've already tried this, but wtf:

***To switch your display to 256 colors
Some games and other software programs require that your monitor be set to 256 colors, or they run better in 256 colors. Many of those programs will switch your monitor to 256 colors automatically when you start the program. For those that don't, follow the steps below if you want to switch the display temporarily while the game or program is running.

On your desktop or on the Start menu, right-click the game or other program that you want to run in 256 colors, and then click Properties.
Click the Compatibility tab.
Select the Run in 256 colors check box.
Notes

The screen will revert to your default color quality when you close the program.
Try switching to 256 colors if your software program shows the wrong color or the graphics redraw slowly.
If your software program appears in a small window in the center of your screen, you can increase its size by changing your screen resolution temporarily. Follow the procedure above, but in step 3 select the Run in 640x480 screen resolution check box. Your screen resolution will revert to its previous resolution when you close the program.
The Compatibility tab is available only for programs or games located on your computer's hard disk. It is not available if the program is stored on a floppy disk, compact disk, or a network.****

I use protools on a G4 but own a few XP machines as well. In PTLE they always tell you to use the least colors possible. I also noticed you can accelerate the hardware in XP, don't know if this will help or hurt, good luck.

I'll give this a try. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that dropping to 256 colours will hurt more than help. It is possible that converting the 16 bit images to 256 will take more time.

Accelration is at full (default)

I'll play around with screen resolution some more,, but I don't think this will make any difference either - the graphics card is keeping up fine AFAICT....

CPU (as referre to as VST resources above) is never at more than about 75%. I'm running three fxteleported P4 as at 2.8 Ghz or above.

The monitor raster refresh is not the issue here - this is redraw rate for all the fancy stuff on the screen.

[Mr. Dipity]

Thirty tracks man! I hit fifty once, but that was for a symphonic prog madhouse with sections in fifteen. What kind of craziness are you working on over there?

Tracks:

Main Vox
Backup Vox 1
Backup Vox 2
Backup Vox 3
Backup Vox 4
Alt Vox takes (disabled folder)
Spoken Vox
Spoken Vox fx
TC mercury (sample and hold effect)
TC mercury (filtered lead)
Moog modular (bass)
Lounge Lizard
N.I. Electrik
Absynth
Phatmatik Pro I - kick
Phatmatik Pro I - snare
Phatmatik Pro I - rest of loop
Phatmatik Pro II - loop
Phatmatik Pro II - snare
Chapman stick bass
Chapman stick melody
Chapman stick lead
FX: analog delay I
FX: analog delay II
FX: PSP 84
FX: 3d delays
FX: Lens
FX: Green Machine Amp
FX: Reverb
FX: Reverb (ambience)

That's not including sub mixes, VST channels that launch but I don't use, and channels and outtakes that didn't make the cut. There's always other crap that needs disabling. There would be automation almost every track, if the screen wasn't crapping out before I started mixing.

Keep in mind that each VST shows up as at least two channels (midi+VST) in the track display, and most usually more.

Are you freezing/rendering your tracks as you go?

I can't stand it.

Freezing really sucks. I only render when I have to.