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choosing an older analog board....
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tret-lo
gettin' sounds


Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 101
Location: Cambridge, MA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: choosing an older analog board.... Reply with quote

I am looking to sell my Soundcraft Delta 200. It is a great older analog board, with nice mic pre's and eqs. Like you said, I have to use the inserts as direct outs, but that has never been a problem for me at all. The only reason I'm selling it is because it takes up a little too much space in my tiny apartment.

http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=25877
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chetatkinsdiet
buyin' a studio


Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 870
Location: dallas texas

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: choosing an older analog board.... Reply with quote

It might already be gone, but there was a Studiomaster Mixdown Classic 24 ch with full meter bridge on ebay e few days ago for a BIN price of something crazy like $1100 or $1200.
I have a Studiomaster P7 16 channel that I love. Pres and eq's are very nice.

Other than that....the brands you mentioned are probably the ones to look for, unless you just stumble across a steal on one of the higher end boards....MCI, Audiotronics, Trident, etc....

Later,
m
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pk
buyin' gear


Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 518
Location: Brooklyn - NY

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: choosing an older analog board.... Reply with quote

Thanks for all your replies, very helpful.

I'd really love to know what you all think of this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=23785&item=3780423570&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

With all the great things I've read about Soundtracs, I'm surprised to see this item listed twice on the Bay without a single bid. It's a great looking board and probably sounds the shiz', but could there be something sketchy I'm overlooking, or is it a smokin' deal but just shitty timing for the seller?

How would this Soundtracs compare to a 93' Allen & Heath System 8 in great condition? Which would you choose?
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Everybody's X
re-cappin' neve


Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 685
Location: Kansas City Missouri

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: choosing an older analog board.... Reply with quote

I cant comment on that specific soundtracs but I adored the topaz I had and as soon as I can I will buy another. And I've worked on Neoteks and MCI's and a ghost and it would hang with them no problem
I can't imagine that this board is a POS and it has to be worth what they're asking.

two things to consider
1. ebay bids don't mean shit until the last 5 minutes
2. there's probably 20 guys watching it right now with the same questions you have about it because it's a lesser known board.
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sad iron
tinnitus


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 1164
Location: Iowa City, Ia

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: choosing an older analog board.... Reply with quote

pk wrote:


How would this Soundtracs compare to a 93' Allen & Heath System 8 in great condition? Which would you choose?


I can't really speak the the soundtracs, but I have an A&H System 8 24/16/4 that I realy love the sound of. It is older, and needs to be cleaned up for some scratchy pots, etc. But considering the $$ and what you get for that money, it's a great board. You're probably looking at the 16 channel on ebay right now? You can never tell from photos, but it looks to be in good shape...
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pk
buyin' gear


Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 518
Location: Brooklyn - NY

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: choosing an older analog board.... Reply with quote

My friend got a 16-8 System 8 for $300 a few months ago and he really likes it. It's the older version (all brown) and he hasen't put it through it's paces just yet, but he has mixed a couple of project on it coming from his 002R outs and it sounds lovely. His board is the reason I started researching them more. I saw the one on eBay now but he wants to much money for a 16, imo, add shipping to that and whoever bites on that auction will make him a happy seller. There are a few for sale which I'm considering, but I'm also liking that Soundtracs above.
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jtotheg
alignin' 24-trk


Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: choosing an older analog board.... Reply with quote

Soundworkshop.

Series 30 sound real good.
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pk
buyin' gear


Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 518
Location: Brooklyn - NY

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: choosing an older analog board.... Reply with quote

What's the general opinion on an MCI 636 console, say, if it were about $2500?
Specs are: not used in 5 years, sold as-is, excellent sound when last used. A good investment or money pit with a 'has been' name tag?
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joel hamilton
zen recordist


Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 8878
Location: NYC/Brooklyn

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:08 pm    Post subject: Re: choosing an older analog board.... Reply with quote

nacho459 wrote:
I would try to find an old 16 channel MCI, Auditronics, Trident, or something that someone would have had in their "project" studio back in the 70's. These usually sound pretty cool, and are built better than most contemporary small format consoles and are similarly priced.


Totally true.

Knowing which one of those to get is the key. Dont just get any old MCI. Dont just get any old Auditronics. Same with trident. The 80B is probably one of the consoles I would least like to work on, ever. I seriously would rather work on a soundcraft ghost every day for the rest of my life than have to mix on an 80B. There are good tridents out there though...

Anyway,

Find something with some history. When I got my first auditronics 501 console, I researched the crap out of it, and found that many people had used them like zz top, stax records, the osmonds ( i own their old console now), the first queens of the stone age record (long after I bought my first one), and many others including peter gabriel... Lots of people. I though that was neato, and I loved the EQ in the 501 modules, so I got another one. I got serial #007, made for the Osmonds. The frame is in shit shape, and pretty much the whole console was a little fucked up when i got it. The person I bought it from is a fucker... BUT: I wanted a project. I wanted to make my own console almost from scratch, and I decided to start with EQ's I really liked. Since putting this console in service I have spent WAY more than I would have spent to simply buy a 24 channel neve or API. Some people drive honda accords, some people want a ferrari, some people want an avanti, some people want something weird and cool that kicks ass and maybe only THEY see the potential in it. I realized I was that person a long time ago. Some people would see a rusty old 56 chevy in a barn and say "that piece of shit needs to be towed out of here" and some would freak out and want to restore or customize it. It isnt a '57, but it is really cool... Know what I mean?

If you get into something like this you are entering a world where LOVE has a lot to do with your happiness with your purchase. If it is not a labor of love, get a soundcraft ghost immediately. They sound great, work every day, and hardly ever catch on fire Wink ....

My console has bitched at me many times, and each time, we do a "round" of upgrades. My console is getting to the point where everything but the knobs and the EQ inductors are custom. Like 100 percent. Basically rebuilding the thing from scratch..... twice. That is costly and has nothing to do with "fun" for most people. I am NOT a tech, though I have a decent understanding of things electronic and can solder and all that. NO MORE. I want a professionally done piece of equipment: so I go to a professional.
Purple audio has been AMAZINGLY helpful with my project, and for that I am grateful. I decided to use their discrete opamps in my console, and they designed a kick ass way for them to physically live on each channel for me. amazing.

I am paying (literally, and figuratively) for my love of the strange, and the left of center, but the results are now starting to really outweigh the fucking TEDIOUS and expensive process of choosing a strange (by normal standards) console to start with. There were a few times where I wanted to blow the fucking thinig up and just go get an 8068 and be done with it...

I continue on to this day making revisions and improvements to my console.
It is completely based on how I work and pays off with amazingly punchy sounds and crazy quality discrete "oomph" and goodness.

If that all sounds attractrive to you, then by all means get into some old console.

if not be warned: you will hate the frikkin thing REALLY quick when something wont work, or a button sticks down and you dont know where the fuck to get one, and a fader goes "ZZZZZTTTTTTT" and blows one of your NS10 cones almost out of the box, and you come in one day and it just wont turn on...

Unless you love the thiing, you will want to throw it far and hard.

If you DO love it, congrats, you are a freak like me! Wink
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pk
buyin' gear


Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 518
Location: Brooklyn - NY

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: choosing an older analog board.... Reply with quote

Quote:
Knowing which one of those to get is the key. Dont just get any old MCI. Dont just get any old Auditronics. Same with trident. The 80B is probably one of the consoles I would least like to work on, ever. I seriously would rather work on a soundcraft ghost every day for the rest of my life than have to mix on an 80B. There are good tridents out there though...


That pretty much isolates the main reason I posted this thread, to know which models of the 'name' manufacturers to avoid or particularly look for. The above helps a lot, even though any kind of Trident is out of my league at this moment, it's good to know, nonetheless.


Quote:
Find something with some history. When I got my first auditronics 501 console, I researched the crap out of it


I'm that way too, I research shit like a mofo. As soon as I see or read about an interesting piece, I tab my Safari page into Google, eBay, recordingconsoles.net, etc., to see who's used those bits of kit and why...


Quote:
Some people would see a rusty old 56 chevy in a barn and say "that piece of shit needs to be towed out of here" and some would freak out and want to restore or customize it. It isnt a '57, but it is really cool... Know what I mean?
If you get into something like this you are entering a world where LOVE has a lot to do with your happiness with your purchase. If it is not a labor of love, get a soundcraft ghost immediately. They sound great, work every day, and hardly ever catch on fire Wink


We have a common friend who's considering buying a Ghost very soon, and if I were to get any of the newer specimens, I probably would do the Ghost as well. However, there's just something about the older stuff, the way they look and feel, I think you nailed it, it's the love you put into cleaning it, restoring it, making sure all is up and running...


Quote:
If that all sounds attractrive to you, then by all means get into some old console. Unless you love the thiing, you will want to throw it far and hard.
If you DO love it, congrats, you are a freak like me! Wink


I'm a realist (though often a delayed process, in my case), and the above is absolutely true. The fine line between loving the idea of owning and mixing on an older board and the reality of loving it regardless of it's mind-numbing quirks. A very enlightening reply, Joel, thanks, you made some great points.
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joel hamilton
zen recordist


Joined: 19 May 2003
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Location: NYC/Brooklyn

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: choosing an older analog board.... Reply with quote

Who is getting a ghost? John?
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rpowell
pluggin' in mics


Joined: 09 Nov 2003
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:42 pm    Post subject: Re: choosing an older analog board.... Reply with quote

pk wrote:
What's the general opinion on an MCI 636 console, say, if it were about $2500?
Specs are: not used in 5 years, sold as-is, excellent sound when last used. A good investment or money pit with a 'has been' name tag?


If I were buying it "as is", the least I would do is a signal path check on all the channels, inserts, solos, and masters. And bring a pair of powered speakers, a CD player, and a mic, and check each channel for EQ functionality, etc. It might take you an hour or so, but the peace of mind and knowledge would be worth it.

I used one of these consoles extensively (with a Sony /MCI 2" machine) back in the late 80's. Sonically it didn't have Neve or API-type sonic karma, and I thought the EQ was a little coarse sounding, but overall a very functional console.

As with all vintage consoles, you may be looking at a substantial re-capping if you want to restore it to maximum sonic glory.

RP
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t morgan
audio school


Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 8
Location: nashville, tn

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:43 pm    Post subject: Re: choosing an older analog board.... Reply with quote

I have a Soundcraft 1600. It's been great for mixing out of Pro Tools.
You might want to consider one of these. It gives you so many options, and it sounds really good. (plus 24 mic pres, patchbay)
One just sold on ebay for about $2000.
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DryCounty
buyin' a studio
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Joined: 27 Dec 2003
Posts: 860
Location: Richmond, Virginia

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:46 pm    Post subject: Re: choosing an older analog board.... Reply with quote

Just stumbled upon this on CL. No price, but I'm sure it's out of my range:

http://www.craigslist.org/sfc/msg/59091120.html
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Substrated
audio school graduate


Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 15
Location: West Seattle

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:45 am    Post subject: Re: choosing an older analog board.... Reply with quote

I have a 32ch Ghost that I've been trying to sell. 32ch w/ mach ctrl, meter bridge and stand. If your intrested contact me. In Seattle

substrationsound@hotmail.com

Jason
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