Royer 121 / Ribbon ???'s

[Huntlabs]

I've got a Royer 121. It is my first ribbon mic. I've been experimenting with it lately. Mainly I've been playing with lots of mic's, LDC, MDC and a few dynamics. Acoustic Guitar, Electric Guitar and Drums. I just not finding the right spot for the 121. Seems kinda muddy but I do hear the smoothness in the mids.

I need a little advice on using the 121, placement, what sound source to use it on, other mics to mix it with, etc? Do you use EQ on them or just let it be? I haven't used it in a session yet so maybe where it will sit in the mix is part of the answer I'm seeking.

Thanks
John

[midiot]

Good for electric guitars. outside of a kickdrum (but you might want to use a windscreen), try as an overhead too.

[Brett Siler]

I have been using my Oktava ribbon mic for a room mic for drums lately and getting really good results. I do usually use a little EQ but not much.

Also from what i understand the Oktava ribbons and Royer ribbons sound pretty different.

[nestle]

I have a R121 -
what it gets used on for the most part is electric guitar. period.
I haven't found another thing it's great at yet, don't like it on vocals at all. But what it does it does really well. I just put it up on a amp and it is the most smooth natural sound I have ever heard. It's not dark, just less harsh than LDC and bigger than dynamics. It's just a diffrent animal like a ferret is not a cat.
It's wonderful on guitar and my go to rock guitar mic which is enough of reason to own it, but if anyone has any other applications would love to hear them-

hint, Backside is brighter
I use a focusrite RED and a UA pre amp which helps I'm sure

[vatoben]

the 121 is a great mono drum overhead. that with a kick mic and the right drummer and you're in buisness, if you like a more old school sound. the 121 is the guitar mic though. that up on any distorted amp will give you alot to work with. i love the mic cause i'm not a big fan of the hyped top end on most LDCs. i save the condensers for tape. try using it as a room mic and compressing it to bangladesh. it won't get raspy like alot of other mics do under compression.

[chetatkinsdiet]

We got a great Stones-y sort of acoustic sound with the backside of the 121 about 2' away from a vintage Gibby. Nailed the sound we were looking for.
later,
m

[Huntlabs]

Thanks for the replys...

Nestle: How far from the amp do you usually set it?

I'll try the backside out tomorrow on e-guitar and acoustic.

Vatoben: The top end is almost non existant especially at a distance from the source. I'll try compressing the crap out of it and see what happens. I'll give it a try as a mono overhead.

I recorded with it some today on a Strat / Fender amp and up close got some good sounds. Mixed with an SM57 60 / 40 sounded great. Still working on a project comparing LDCs right now, mainly...

I think in a mix / session I may feel different about it. If you mic everything with a LDC there is going to be an abundance of high end energy, Perhaps???? I am getting a better idea where and when to use it.

[LittleDogAudio]

This is about on par for the 121. I tend to struggle for a while until I get it to sound good. There is almost always eq involved.

I've started to use the AEA R84's much more often instead of the Royer. The only problem is that the R84 can't handle the spl as well as the 121, so I guess I have to keep both.

The R84 is just an all-around easier mic to deal with imho.

Chris

[Family Hoof]

I agree with Nestle's comments aobut it being FANTASTIC on electric guitar cabinets and not the best choice for most anything else. I don't put it as close as I would a 57, between 4" to one foot from the grill maybe. Also, blending with another mic can yeild even greater results.

I will mention that in my experience ribbon mics can be much more sensitive to preamp choice than other types and require a lot more gain. This is why Royer came up with the R122. Once you find a preamp that the R121 likes and has enough gain for it, you'll find that it's an excellent condenser alternative in most any situation (when the high end is harse and you don't know what to do). Both sides of it sound different. Try not putting it as close to the source as you would with the rest of your mics and be VERY careful of air blasts.

[nestle]

as far as distance from the amp, I usually stick it right up close most times....
But it really stresses me out becuase I have blown it once (tt bay)- I'm really careful about hitting standby at all times, if I can't babysit it or trust the client I'll use a 421 or 4047 which are my other faves for LOUD guitar. I like that the R121 can take the volume, love it. For a more retro softer sound the tape op ribbon (nady in my case) that we're all buying sounds great on guitar amps and actually better than the Royer on vocals. (I'm getting 4 yea!!!!)

[Bear's Gone Fission]

Back side of the 121 is a bit brighter. For all I know, it might be less durable, tho . . .

Bear

[Rivers]

A few more points..
Defintely try the Royer out with several pres.Seems to sound better with better pres? (Duh)

Also it's very sensitive to placement eq- wise and very slight rotation can produce a fairly dramatic eq change.I will really tweek the Royer around to find the sweet spot.

Lastly don't be afraid to eq in some high end in during mixing..The Royer seems to take eq well and won't get as harsh as some condensers.

[Huntlabs]

Thanks for all the feedback. I've been working on an editing / mastering project of wild animal sounds.... Elk.... no joke. Got it done today.

I did play around with a Lucid AD9624 and a Hamptone pre. I learned I really like SM57's through the Hamptone. That is a great pre. I also leaned a little more about my Octopre. Those 1/4 inputs don't work for anything other than bass and guitar. I had been running line level signals in there and it compresses the shit out of them. Don't do it.

I did a bit of experimenting with the Royer 121. I got the best results moving it about 1 1/2 feet to right up to the cab. Seemes fuller. Further back it just seemed thin and dull. I did place it right up on the grille but 90 degrees to the speaker. Really bright and thin.

I'll have some time this weeked and try out some of the suggestions all ya all gave me. I'll post some "results" in a few days.....

[fremitus]

they really kick ass on trombones too. really smooth, very much what the player generally likes to hear frequency wise. they're fun on piano, not natural, but a very cool tone used as a well spaced pair.

[Huntlabs]

I spent the day recording yesterday. I was doing guitar tracks, Fender Strat and a 67 Super Reverb. I choose to try the SM57, Royer 121, Dragonfly and an AT4033. I close mic'd with the SM57. Found the best sound with the Dragonfly and the 4033 when they were about 2' off the front. I ran the SM57 and the 121 into the Hamptone Pre and the Dragonfly and 4033 into my Octopre, pres that is....

Tried the 121 2' out, 1' out and tried front and back sides. The back / front is a big difference on this mic. Almost like two different mics. Brighter on the back.

On one song I had the Strat, back pickup, Tubescreamer, bright edgy sound and the 121 backside at about 1' gave a great sound. Edgy with good highs. I mixed it with the Dragonfly and got what I was after. The SM57 was just too much, too edgy and in your face. The 121 / Dragonfly sat in the mix perfectly. I needed some more high end on the gutars in the mix.

The next tune I tracked needed a clean Strat sound with the back two pickups. Amp volume was low to moderate. I struggled to get this one just right. Tried the same mics and moved em around. Finally moving the SM57 to the edge of the speaker and mixing it with the Dragonfly got it good enough.

I couldn't find it, that shimmery clean 67 Fender sound, with any position with the 121, even with some eq thrown it. I'll keep F-ing with it... Thanks again for the ideas.